Israel declares war on Hamas

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why do you hate Jews?

Why do you justify the murder of Jews and the death of children?

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Very much a case where, while what is happening is horrific and you can’t imagine being a civilian caught in that situation, there’s really no side to take.

Let's analyze this post some more because I really think it shows you for what you are.

There is a poster talking about relatives being in mortal danger, women and children may be murdered right now on the other side of the world and here you come in basically saying you think Hamas has justification to target them. Cmon why are you so scared to share what the "other side" is? You said it in your very first post, you were so eager you were probably giddy with excitement to finally get that dig in how you think Hamas has a right to do these things. Just share them with the group brave man.

It's actually really funny how you were instantly called out but you just resorted to insults and shouting someone down. Some things never change I guess, you're all over this thread like a rash.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Skootenbeeten

Why do you justify the murder of Jews and the death of children?



Let's analyze this post some more because I really think it shows you for what you are.

There is a poster talking about relatives being in mortal danger, women and children may be murdered right now on the other side of the world and here you come in basically saying you think Hamas has justification to target them. Cmon why are you so scared to share what the "other side" is? You said it in your very first post, you were so eager you were probably giddy with excitement to finally get that dig in how you think Hamas has a right to do these things. Just share them with the group brave man.

It's actually really funny how you were instantly called out but you just resorted to insults and shouting someone down. Some things never change I guess, you're all over this thread like a rash.

I’ve already explained this to you in a post you quoted and responded to, why are you acting like this is a case of someone being scared instead of you not being able to read? lol

I guess it shows the difference between people concerned for civilians and people concerned about defending a far-right government. Even from the post you quoted, it’s clear my concern has been the civilians from day one. Meanwhile, you call them brown shirts, liars, and call for the slaughter of even more Israeli women and children whenever anyone questions your dear leader. As soon as hostages and their families disagree with you on how they should be treated, you compare them to Trump supporters.

“Analyze” that and tell me what kind of person you sound like hahaha. And put the hate aside. There’s no reason to hate Jews and Palestinians as much as you do. Take the bigot act elsewhere.

[robertsfan]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

You just denied Oct 7th happened. The Jews killed over 1200 Jews, not Hamas and Palestinians? Who took the 250 hostages? The Jews too? Who filmed the execution of hostages? Jews? What is wrong with you?

What is your opinion about the Holocaust? Let me guess that was just the Jews trying to make Germans look bad.

I would say you’re insane but that would be a compliment. The proper words to describe your post are not allowed on CP.

You need a big timeout to learn about moral bankruptcy, and human decency.

I never denied the tragic events of October 7, nor did I make any such statement directly. In fact, I've previously condemned Hamas and never stated support any Arab leaders or organizations.

However, in my haste to respond to a previous comment towards one of my posts, I did erroneously, copy / paste the number of Israeli citizens killed, resulting in a post that was both inaccurate and understandably angering.

What I intended to convey is that, while the Israeli Army has been involved in military actions that have led to the deaths of Palestinian civilians, there have also been unfortunate instances where their actions have lead to Israeli citizens have been harmed as well, either due to accidents or during the conflict.

Condemning the killing and suffering of civilians on one side while ignoring or minimizing the loss on the other is hypocritical. That’s not something I support, and I regret that my post implied otherwise.

You can maintain whatever opinions you hold of me, but my overall posting history shows this was an error, not a reflection of my views.

[Fuzz]

More than 1,000 people, including Hezbollah fighters and medics, were wounded on Tuesday when the pagers they use to communicate exploded across Lebanon, security sources told Reuters.

At Mt. Lebanon hospital, a Reuters reporter saw motorcycles rushing to the emergency room, where people with their hands bloodied were screaming in pain.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/hezbol...325436?cmp=rss


1)Pagers are still in use?
2)you can blow them up remotely???
3)this seams particularly monstrous to do, even if they are also horrible people. Retaliation may come in the form of equally monstrous activities. This seems ill-thought out.

[Fuzzy14]

1)Pagers are still in use?
2)you can blow them up remotely???
3)this seams particularly monstrous to do, even if they are also horrible people. Retaliation may come in the form of equally monstrous activities. This seems ill-thought out.

1) crazy, where do you even buy that in bulk!
2) this may be what finally causes me to stop using my pager!
3) meh... when Israel conducts military operations that harm civilians, they're monsters. When they retaliate in a manner that only risks the members of a known terrorist organization (and their testicles) with very little serious risk to bystanders, they're also monsters. Israel should honestly just give up and move to Mars, there's apparently nothing they're allowed to do.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy14

1) crazy, where do you even buy that in bulk!
2) this may be what finally causes me to stop using my pager!
3) meh... when Israel conducts military operations that harm civilians, they're monsters. When they retaliate in a manner that only risks the members of a known terrorist organization (and their testicles) with very little serious risk to bystanders, they're also monsters. Israel should honestly just give up and move to Mars, there's apparently nothing they're allowed to do.

"Allowed" isn't the issue. It's that they invite retaliation for this. This didn't seem to do anything for Israeli security, it's just pissing on a hornets nest. Like, great, you injured a bunch of angry people who want you dead. What does Israel expect to get out of that? What's the benefit?

[Fuzzy14]

"Allowed" isn't the issue. It's that they invite retaliation for this. This didn't seem to do anything for Israeli security, it's just pissing on a hornets nest. Like, great, you injured a bunch of angry people who want you dead. What does Israel expect to get out of that? What's the benefit?

I think that's only really a concern if the person you're pissing on wasn't going to attack you if you did nothing. What's Hezbollah going to do in retaliation? Shoot rockets at Israel? Attack Israeli civilians? How will Israel adapt to this foreign scenario?!?!

I guess what Israel gets out of it, other than hours of footage of their sworn enemies being emasculated, is a reaffirmation that they can reach their enemies anywhere, anytime. Ultimately, that does have some marginal value.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy14

I think that's only really a concern if the person you're pissing on wasn't going to attack you if you did nothing. What's Hezbollah going to do in retaliation? Shoot rockets at Israel? Attack Israeli civilians? How will Israel adapt to this foreign scenario?!?!

I guess what Israel gets out of it, other than hours of footage of their sworn enemies being emasculated, is a reaffirmation that they can reach their enemies anywhere, anytime. Ultimately, that does have some marginal value.

I'd argue it doesn't. It might if you were dealing with rational people. You aren't, so it isn't going to dissuade them, it's just motivation to continue. It does nothing to reduce violence and death. Nothing Israel seems to do does that, so why do they keep doing it? Are they any safer and more secure now than they were 20 years ago? Will anything be different if they continue this course of action for another 20 years? These are questions that don't have good answers based on the direction they are on.

[Fuzzy14]

I'd argue it doesn't. It might if you were dealing with rational people. You aren't, so it isn't going to dissuade them, it's just motivation to continue. It does nothing to reduce violence and death. Nothing Israel seems to do does that, so why do they keep doing it? Are they any safer and more secure now than they were 20 years ago? Will anything be different if they continue this course of action for another 20 years? These are questions that don't have good answers based on the direction they are on.

Hey, fair enough, though arguably, neither side in this conflict thinks in the forward-looking and rational manner that you propose, and arguably, that's the core issue in this intractable conflict.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy14

Hey, fair enough, though arguably, neither side in this conflict thinks in the forward-looking and rational manner that you propose, and arguably, that's the core issue in this intractable conflict.

And that's the thing. I don't have an illusions that Hamas or Hezbollah can be convinced to act in a rational way. If I did, I'd direct more effort in that direction. I do believe Israel is full of people who do understand and can act in rational ways, though it doesn't seem to be led by them. Convincing them that the current direction is not making things better, and finding another way should be the goal here. Violence for the sake of violence, and as you say generating "hours of footage of their sworn enemies being emasculated," is dumb and worthy of being denounced.

[OldDutch]

My guess is they intercepted the pager supply chain. Given they probably have a standard issue pager. Israel swaps with a full functional explosive one.

If that is the case just amazing that many were distributed without one blowing up by accident and tipping of the enemy.

Otherwise how the eff do you blow it up? Lithium Ion explosion maybe? Maybe that was it and there were no explosives just malware inserted on device.

Honestly it fascinates me how good Israel is at this stuff.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/hezbol...325436?cmp=rss


1)Pagers are still in use?
2)you can blow them up remotely???
3)this seams particularly monstrous to do, even if they are also horrible people. Retaliation may come in the form of equally monstrous activities. This seems ill-thought out.

What a crazy story. The parts inside a pager wouldn't blow up like that, so I don't think it had anything to do with any sort of hack on a standard pager or something like that. Only thing I can come up with is, a while ago, Israel came up with the idea to build pagers with explosives in them and sell them exclusively to Hezbollah (or other enemies) through channels they've been able to penetrate into via espionage. Played the long game and waited for the time they wanted/needed to send a message.

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’ve already explained this to you in a post you quoted and responded to, why are you acting like this is a case of someone being scared instead of you not being able to read? lol

I guess it shows the difference between people concerned for civilians and people concerned about defending a far-right government. Even from the post you quoted, it’s clear my concern has been the civilians from day one. Meanwhile, you call them brown shirts, liars, and call for the slaughter of even more Israeli women and children whenever anyone questions your dear leader. As soon as hostages and their families disagree with you on how they should be treated, you compare them to Trump supporters.

“Analyze” that and tell me what kind of person you sound like hahaha. And put the hate aside. There’s no reason to hate Jews and Palestinians as much as you do. Take the bigot act elsewhere.

Awww you're scared and don't want to be held accountable for your words on the day of a mass murder. Basically gloating over the killing of civilians, it's hard to claim the moral high ground when you can so easily justify the actions of Hamas in your head. Just tell us what the other side is, c'mon brave man. On one side you have dead Israelis and on the other Hamas, how is there no side to take on Oct 7th? Explain yourself.

It's of no surprise there are some tears for Hezbollah here today, this is a true den of vile terrorist simps.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

My guess is they intercepted the pager supply chain. Given they probably have a standard issue pager. Israel swaps with a full functional explosive one.

If that is the case just amazing that many were distributed without one blowing up by accident and tipping of the enemy.

Otherwise how the eff do you blow it up? Lithium Ion explosion maybe? Maybe that was it and there were no explosives just malware inserted on device.

Honestly it fascinates me how good Israel is at this stuff.

Ya, I don't know how you'd trigger a Li battery to explode in a pager with just malware. You might be able to do it on charging. But just operating? I don't think you'd be able to have a pager draw enough power to destabilize the battery. So you may be right in the distribution part of it, but then you'd be playing a long game for replacements, and to get them into as many hands as possible without it being suspicious. This will be an interesting one.

[blankall]

I'd guess this had to be a supply chain infiltration. Maybe they switched out boxes on the way to their destination or maybe the sales people were Israeli agents. Hezbollah needs to source equipment like everyone else. I guess you just need to set up a process where you outbid the other suppliers, then provide them with pagers with an extra ingredient?

I wonder how long these pagers had been in circulation before this attack? It could have been months.

And apparently Hezbollah uses pagers for the same reason drug dealers do, cell phone signals can be intercepted easily. I was just looking it up and apparently there are still around 2 million active pagers in North America? Anyone that requires more reliability and security than a smartphone can offer will use them. Commonly used by first responders, most notably fire fighters, and anyone who works with classified info.

[Fuzzy14]

And that's the thing. I don't have an illusions that Hamas or Hezbollah can be convinced to act in a rational way. If I did, I'd direct more effort in that direction. I do believe Israel is full of people who do understand and can act in rational ways, though it doesn't seem to be led by them. Convincing them that the current direction is not making things better, and finding another way should be the goal here. Violence for the sake of violence, and as you say generating "hours of footage of their sworn enemies being emasculated," is dumb and worthy of being denounced.

What's the value in insisting that one side act in the rational manner that it's capable of, towards an enemy that isn't capable of that same rationality?

If you accept the proposition that parties should work towards an end that is beneficial to them, and that there are two possible avenues (peace and conflict), and that a peaceful solution is impossible because one side is incapable of acting rationally, then what is the benefit to that rational party of acting in that rational manner.

Israel and Egypt were in conflict for a long time. Both actors are capable of acting rationally, and once both sides decided that they were ready to do so, they established a lasting peace. Are Hamas, Hezbollah, and the segments of that Palestinian population that support those groups capable of that same level of rationality? I don't know that they are.

ANYWAYS, I promised myself I wouldn't get mired in this cesspool of a thread...

[Ozy_Flame]

2750 injured, 250 in critical condition, 8 dead. Probably more deaths to follow.

Holy. ####.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy14

What's the value in insisting that one side act in the rational manner that it's capable of, towards an enemy that isn't capable of that same rationality?

If you accept the proposition that parties should work towards an end that is beneficial to them, and that there are two possible avenues (peace and conflict), and that a peaceful solution is impossible because one side is incapable of acting rationally, then what is the benefit to that rational party of acting in that rational manner.

Israel and Egypt were in conflict for a long time. Both actors are capable of acting rationally, and once both sides decided that they were ready to do so, they established a lasting peace. Are Hamas, Hezbollah, and the segments of that Palestinian population that support those groups capable of that same level of rationality? I don't know that they are.

ANYWAYS, I promised myself I wouldn't get mired in this cesspool of a thread...

I think you can act rationally against an irrational actor. There is a difference between don’t defend yourself and the level of destruction inflicted in Gaza. If Israel’s goal is to limit the number of Israeli casualties overtime I do not believe there current actions are accomplishing it. Unless they are going full on displace/exterminate and occupy in which case it would be barbaric but likely effective. It’s the current in between stage of causing mass civilian harm but no clear path to resolution that doesn’t really make sense.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

2750 injured, 250 in critical condition, 8 dead. Probably more deaths to follow.

Holy. ####.

If Israel had that much control over the hardware stack of the pages they could remotely kill this many people, they had access to the comms on those pagers.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

1)Pagers are still in use?

They are still pretty common in hospitals. They are actually really efficient and useful in that setting.