Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Leaving over $130 million on the table.


CBC: 'A lost opportunity': Alberta gives back $137M to Ottawa in unspent funds to clean up inactive wells

I was just looking for the press release stating "Trudeau and his evil Finance Minister STEAL over $130 million from needy Albertans. We won't stand for this blatant theft of our own money, and will be doing something really really soonish."

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I was just looking for the press release stating "Trudeau and his evil Finance Minister STEAL over $130 million from needy Albertans. We won't stand for this blatant theft of our own money, and will be doing something really really soonish."

Is that latest "fund" they mentioned for insolvent liabilities or companies that are fine? I can't find anymore details.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Leaving over $130 million on the table.


CBC: 'A lost opportunity': Alberta gives back $137M to Ottawa in unspent funds to clean up inactive wells

I do find it interesting the focus is on the taxpayer money being returned. Not the over billion dollars of tax payer money spent by, stable financially solvent oil companies on their liabilities.

[Ozy_Flame]

You mean what they're required to do by law?

That shouldn't be a story. That should just be standard operating procedure.

We shouldn't have to pat corporations on the back for every minor compliance win, let alone billion dollar companies and industry.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

You mean what they're required to do by law?

That shouldn't be a story. That should just be standard operating procedure.

We shouldn't have to pat corporations on the back for every minor compliance win, let alone billion dollar companies and industry.

You missed the part where I said tax payer money.

[Ozy_Flame]

Again, they're supposed to be spending that money on cleanup.

Standard operating procedure. Following the rules (even though I still don't know why taxpayer money is being used for this at all).

Do we need balloons and confetti to celebrate that?

[Weitz]

The story should be why was tax payer money used at all. Not why did some of the tax payer money get returned. Not sure what you’re on about celebrating anything.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Weitz

The story should be why was tax payer money used at all. Not why did some of the tax payer money get returned. Not sure what you’re on about celebrating anything.

I thought it was clear you were further on the no taxpayer money for oil companies train than he is. It is gross there was taxpayer money for solvent companies.

He's not saying they should be celebrating anything (huh?). He's saying that there should have been 0 money given for this, not a story that they didn't spend it all.

[Ozy_Flame]

Weitz:

"I do find it interesting the focus is on the taxpayer money being returned. Not the over billion dollars of tax payer money spent by, stable financially solvent oil companies on their liabilities."


That's not a story about why taxpayer money is being spent. You want a story about how profitable oil companies are spending taxpayer money as they're required to.

Don't twist words and move goal posts. You said it verbatim.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Weitz

The story should be why was tax payer money used at all. Not why did some of the tax payer money get returned. Not sure what you’re on about celebrating anything.

It was covid relief money that was supposed to put to work oilfield companies when oil prices had dropped to nothing. The original intent was that we had these abandoned wells from companies that didn't exist anymore that needed cleanup anyway and required public money to do it. It would give work to those left with none by the pandemic, and cleanup what needed to be done anyway. The money was handed over to Alberta, and, well, 'Berta's gonna 'Berta, and here we are. The idea from the feds was rational and reasonable. The implementation from the province? Huh.


https://thenarwhal.ca/cnrl-cenovus-o...nup-subsidies/

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It was covid relief money that was supposed to put to work oilfield companies when oil prices had dropped to nothing. The original intent was that we had these abandoned wells from companies that didn't exist anymore that needed cleanup anyway and required public money to do it. It would give work to those left with none by the pandemic, and cleanup what needed to be done anyway. The money was handed over to Alberta, and, well, 'Berta's gonna 'Berta, and here we are. The idea from the feds was rational and reasonable. The implementation from the province? Huh.


https://thenarwhal.ca/cnrl-cenovus-o...nup-subsidies/

I know the program. I spent a significant amount of the public money. Where you are wrong is calling orphan wells abandoned wells. Orphans weren’t eligible for most of this program. It was to kick start people back to work. But it was too much money and far too long of a program. I can’t disagree about the Alberta implementation. Was rushed, but most companies who took their time were able to make most use of their money.

[Fuzz]

Right, and I don't know how the Orphan well program is run, but to me it would have made sense for the funds to go to them, they choose which wells get cleaned up, and hire it out to the service companies. None of the companies currently operating functional wells should have gotten anything.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Right, and I don't know how the Orphan well program is run, but to me it would have made sense for the funds to go to them, they choose which wells get cleaned up, and hire it out to the service companies. None of the companies currently operating functional wells should have gotten anything.

Agreed. Though the Feds had loaned them money prior to COVID to get on some more historical stuff. Probably why they decided to leave them out. But it would have made more sense to give them some cash to bank. I believe at the time their inventory was fairly low so discussions could have been had behind the scenes that pushed the Feds the way they did.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Right, and I don't know how the Orphan well program is run, but to me it would have made sense for the funds to go to them, they choose which wells get cleaned up, and hire it out to the service companies. None of the companies currently operating functional wells should have gotten anything.

The OWA is not a government department nor do they have any regulatory approval. They don't provide input or make decisions on which wells get cleaned up across the spectrum unless the wells are specifically turned over to the OWA. The also received $200M as part of that federal spending. Wells becoming the responsibility of the OWA is the last thing that we want to happen, not because they are bad at what they do but because that indicates issues with the regulatory system.

[Monahammer]

CTV saying the premier will be giving us a dinnertime address today, while the Premier is also in New York? What's happening here.

Re: Well money- I would be willing to bet that a large part of the blame here lies at the feet of incompetent bureaucrats. However, they may successfully argue that there was not enough resources to responsibly manage the amount of cash outflow in the time frame given to effectively spend it.

It's not just simply awarding money out, there are oversight and reporting requirements when you give out government money, which means someone on the other end has to review and log them correctly, then have 50 meetings about doing this.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Right, and I don't know how the Orphan well program is run, but to me it would have made sense for the funds to go to them, they choose which wells get cleaned up, and hire it out to the service companies. None of the companies currently operating functional wells should have gotten anything.

I agree, solvent companies getting clean up money is a stain.

I worked for the orphan fund many moons ago when they had 220 wells.

They basically have money (mostly paid by for industry). they took in $178MM last year but really cannot spend it all due to manpower limitations, they always have some left in the hopper. Especially with remediation, those things take 1- 10 years to get done.

They did spend 863MM of that $1B. I wonder who got the most of it.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I agree, solvent companies getting clean up money is a stain.

I worked for the orphan fund many moons ago when they had 220 wells.

They basically have money (mostly paid by for industry). they took in $178MM last year but really cannot spend it all due to manpower limitations, they always have some left in the hopper. Especially with remediation, those things take 1- 10 years to get done.

They did spend 863MM of that $1B. I wonder who got the most of it.

https://thenarwhal.ca/cnrl-cenovus-o...nup-subsidies/


A little way down the article there is a table. It was interesting to skip to page 30 and see a whole load of companies got a small amount...for...stuff?

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by getbak

Is Airdrie the most poorly-served city of nearly 100,000 people in this country?

Good. They voted for this. Idiots.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

CTV saying the premier will be giving us a dinnertime address today, while the Premier is also in New York? What's happening here.

CTV says is about supports for schools (but probably other stuff): "Smith says her government was taken by surprise at the number of people who moved to Alberta last year."

Translation: "All Trudeau's fault."

And a televised address at dinner time? Similar to the time she shat on LGBTQ kids and removed some of their rights. I wouldn't be surprised if this includes some more of that, pronouns, sex ed, etc. with a substantial financial distraction to distract everyone from the real intent.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

CTV says is about supports for schools (but probably other stuff): "Smith says her government was taken by surprise at the number of people who moved to Alberta last year."

Translation: "All Trudeau's fault."

And a televised address at dinner time? Similar to the time she shat on LGBTQ kids and removed some of their rights. I wouldn't be surprised if this includes some more of that, pronouns, sex ed, etc. with a substantial financial distraction to distract everyone from the real intent.

Also Smith: I have no idea what this "Alberta is calling!!" thing is.