The everything CHESS thread

[MoneyGuy]

Asked this on the questions thread. Didn’t know there was a chess thread so here goes.

Any advice for teaching a nine-year-old how to play chess? We’ve had one game and I basically threw the game. I had him mated in six moves but explained his mistake and didn’t do the mate. He had a slight advantage on points (5 for a rook, knight 3, etc.) but lost interest. His moves made no sense, moving a piece then two moves later back to the same position.

I get that he’s only 9. He’s playing online against a computer. His ninth birthday is actually Sunday and I’m getting him his first chess set. Maybe he’d be best off playing the computer opponent for a few weeks so he can gain experience. Or maybe have him watch his dad and play a game and explain strategy. He’s bright so he’ll be good - eventually.

Any ideas for keeping him interested?

[karl262]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Asked this on the questions thread. Didn’t know there was a chess thread so here goes.

Any advice for teaching a nine-year-old how to play chess? We’ve had one game and I basically threw the game. I had him mated in six moves but explained his mistake and didn’t do the mate. He had a slight advantage on points (5 for a rook, knight 3, etc.) but lost interest. His moves made no sense, moving a piece then two moves later back to the same position.

I get that he’s only 9. He’s playing online against a computer. His ninth birthday is actually Sunday and I’m getting him his first chess set. Maybe he’d be best off playing the computer opponent for a few weeks so he can gain experience. Or maybe have him watch his dad and play a game and explain strategy. He’s bright so he’ll be good - eventually.

Any ideas for keeping him interested?

Maybe find one of those annoying roblox yoututers that also does chess content?

I'm kind of in the same boat, would like to hear some actual ideas

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[octothorp]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Asked this on the questions thread. Didn’t know there was a chess thread so here goes.

Any advice for teaching a nine-year-old how to play chess? We’ve had one game and I basically threw the game. I had him mated in six moves but explained his mistake and didn’t do the mate. He had a slight advantage on points (5 for a rook, knight 3, etc.) but lost interest. His moves made no sense, moving a piece then two moves later back to the same position.

I get that he’s only 9. He’s playing online against a computer. His ninth birthday is actually Sunday and I’m getting him his first chess set. Maybe he’d be best off playing the computer opponent for a few weeks so he can gain experience. Or maybe have him watch his dad and play a game and explain strategy. He’s bright so he’ll be good - eventually.

Any ideas for keeping him interested?

Start with giving yourself an extreme handicap... like you've got a king and three pawns and nothing else, he's got the full set. Let him work out how to checkmate you. Give him heavily-weighted odds where he'll probably be able to win, but keep changing up the actual pieces, starting yourself with a the king and a couple rooks, the king and queen, king and the knights and bishops, etc.

It'll probably be more fun for you, too, since you don't have to hold back, you can actually try and win even when you've got virtually impossible odds.

[MoneyGuy]

That’s a really good idea. As he progresses I could add pieces to my starting board.

[mrkajz44]

That is actually a great idea. I've been struggling a bit too with my son, though he's only 5 so my expectations are quite a bit lower. My strategy has been to always ask him what he thinks I should do now that he's moved. It's slow, but he's starting to see how he's just leaving pieces open to capture. I also make bad moves too and try to encourage him to see the bad move and take advantage.

[DoubleF]

Take my advice with a grain of salt. I'm maybe around a 1200 ELO player at best based on my performance vs the Chess.com bots. But I'd like to believe I had success in helping about a dozen people enjoy learning how to improve their game over the last few decades.

For context, I played for about a week or two last summer and that was the last time I played chess in a measurable manner. I'm quite certain I am not even at 1500 ELO. I have a buddy who is around 1600-1800? He says he's envious of my mid game, but obliterates me in terms of openings and late game. He likes figuring out how to play my hyper aggressive game and the fact I like toying around with unconventional play which keeps things fresh for him. I like tinkering around with Alekhine's defense even though I've been told I often played it incorrectly. I've never won against my buddy, but he says he's always happy to play against me for a change of pace.

I think as someone significantly stronger at chess who will try and teach someone significantly weaker, one of the best approaches is to ensure that you're simultaneously trying to learn how to keep the game interesting for both sides. The weaker opponent also works on improving their fundamentals while you re-teach yourself the fundamentals, learn a new opening or use your advanced skills to weave a specific lesson or narrative in the final game play.


Chess puzzles are a good one, but based on my experience, I'd keep it completely separate from playing full games. I've seen too many newbies who are really good at chess puzzles lose interest in full games relatively quickly.

Agreed with the handicap, but I've never gone as far as a King and 3 pawns when teaching. I'd typically halve my back row and seal off castling. I don't drop the queen because it gets hard for the opponent to learn and strategize and get excited about taking a strong piece. However, I find the handicap thing rapidly becomes a detriment vs a useful teaching method, so I've always viewed it best to consider it a fun puzzle type play vs a true development type game style similar to something like bughouse/Siamese chess.

Similar to the chess puzzle idea, after the piece handicap puzzles, I'll go immediately into timed chess and offer a handicap based on time (ie: 5-20 minutes vs 20-60 minutes). It's still more time than either of us really will use, but it's surprising how much of the psychology aspect of the game can be taught through the clock, so I'd recommend starting the education of chess with a clock early. More than enough time for both sides, but enough to give some pressure so that they can learn that pressure is a natural part of the game.

Because of the clock it's also easier to intentionally blunder every 5th-10th move and not make it feel as much like you're patronizing your opponent. That or create a 2+ move puzzle for the opponent to increase the value of their captured pieces and blame it on making a mistake because I was rushed for time. I really didn't find it very valuable in helping someone learn the game if I was throwing it intentionally, because then they'd learn weird patterns they'd never see again when progressing upward (thus they'd have to unlearn to re-learn).

Every 3-5 moves or so (not every move) I'd also ask what the opponent is looking at and why. I'd give them a suggestion on two different areas of the board against me that are 1-2 moves deep, and then let them decide which of the two to choose, or if they have a totally different idea they want to pursue. I'd also make sure it would be a 2 move opportunity, so that the opponent could learn to see how to chain sequences together and learn the "why" and "how" of the game. I'll have some fake "ah crap" comments while playing, but I'll occasionally openly say I'm doing a move where in 2 moves, they can increase the value of the captured piece. I say if they find the solution, I'll let them increase the value of the captured pieces. But I'll also say if they don't I'll keep both pieces.

I also offer up to 3 mulligans. But by mulligan, it's the ability to rewind the game 2-3 of their moves (4-6 moves total) which allows us to continue playing an alternate reality of the original game play. I never 1 move mulligan. It's not beneficial to both of us if we do that. I have to train myself to memorize play and be a bit more engaged vs mostly tuned out of a game.

One thing I've always felt was important to someone new learning the game is giving them that great feeling of capturing a high value piece in a game. Now, that being said, this isn't purely one sided for the person learning the game.

Doing these intentional blunders and puzzles in gifting a higher value piece in a fork to a newbie is beneficial to me too. It allows me to see a board and play a board where perhaps it sorta emulates a situation where I'm playing someone overwhelmingly good and my blunders emulate being crushed by a higher ELO player. I'm attempting to learning how to read and salvage a board in a disadvantageous situation. That's also why I intentionally blunder every 5-10th move. I'm attempting to re-level the playing field, but also sorta emulating if someone really good was absolutely destroying my strategy and positioning with some clever moves. I'm still playing 3-5 moves in earnest to dig myself out of a hole. That way I think hard about how I can stay engaged in the game vs fighting to tune out as I watch a brutal game unfold.

I'm essentially playing in a challenging way where I'm looking at both "How do I create a puzzle on the board that allows my opponent to increase (or catch up) their playing piece value to mine." plus "What would I wish to prevent, but would have to play through if an opponent found a way to blind side me or I blundered badly on my own? How would I attempt to salvage the game or piece positioning?".


In terms of material to review for teaching purposes, I've always liked Yasser Seirawan. I introduced his material to a few others and they commented they really liked his teaching style more than the other material they had been using. That being said, the last time I recommended Yasser Seirawan books or videos was like 5 years ago. There's been a lot of fantastic material and videos that have likely been released since then.

[Tron_fdc]

I'm a beginner player and I play my 9 year old daughter when we have a chance. She loves it, which is really cool. I think it's going to depend on the kid's personality here though.

I've been kind of "coaching" her a little bit where I let her move/re-move her pieces (if she makes a bad move I tell her why and let her move the piece back, while also telling her that isn't normally allowed) while I also explain what I'm doing and why. She's getting to know the higher value pieces and starting to think more in terms of basic strategy (ie think a few moves in advance) so she can at least understand the fundamentals of the game.

I also let her beat me all the time, which she enjoys.

I'd think throwing too much too soon at young kids might spoil the game a little bit. Let them win and let beat other people (she already wrecks my wife) but every once in a while you have to show em what's up and crush their game to keep them engaged.

She also liked "The Queens Gambit" on Netflix (I didn't know what it was) which was great until the sex and drugs came into the show, which segued into an interesting conversation.

[MoneyGuy]

Sone really good advice here; thank you.

Another idea I’ve had is to coach him as he plays his handicapped dad; I love that idea. I could implement some of these suggestions and ask the grandson why he’s making a certain move and suggest a different strategy. As I said before, he’s making moves just to make moves with no plan. Maybe a plan is too much to expect but I’d like him to start thinking that every move should have a purpose.

Amazon just delivered his birthday chess set. I’m excited. When I learned chess, within a week I beat my friend who taught me. I don’t expect the kid to do that.

[TheIronMaiden]

Another good coaching technique is to start a game from a solid known position. Make the first three or four moves together to get into that set spot and then play the game normally from there. That teaches them fundamentals without sandbagging.

Or you could be like my dad and never ever let me win. Even to this day I've never beat him.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Another good coaching technique is to start a game from a solid known position. Make the first three or four moves together to get into that set spot and then play the game normally from there. That teaches them fundamentals without sandbagging.

Or you could be like my dad and never ever let me win. Even to this day I've never beat him.

My dad...he kicked my ass every single time.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Another good coaching technique is to start a game from a solid known position. Make the first three or four moves together to get into that set spot and then play the game normally from there. That teaches them fundamentals without sandbagging.

Or you could be like my dad and never ever let me win. Even to this day I've never beat him.

I know someone who almost beat his dad in chess, only to blunder the end game instead and lost. His dad never really played much chess with him after that game because he was busy and suddenly passed away years later, thus retaining his perfect record.

I've heard this story so many times over the years and although it is told with a smile and in the form of a good memory, there's always some facet of the way it is told that seems to have a hint of regret or resentment or something.

If my kids take an interest in chess, I'd personally never retain a perfect record. If I was good enough to dominate them, I'd at least let them win a few games.

[FireGilbert]

Check out this position from a recent game I played. Can anyone see why my pawn push was a huge blunder? Thankfully my opponent did not and left me mate in 1. Rook + Knight + Pawn vs Rook endgames are really tricky, given your opponent’s ability to check with their rook and it’s just a draw if you lose the knight or pawn.



I’m still keen for a Lichess blitz tournament. Things have been crazy for me lately but will try to schedule something on a Thursday evening in the next couple of months. Think I’m finally starting to figure out blitz after playing for two years. Been mostly hovering around 1500 but have exploded up to 1700 in the last few months. Time management seems to be my biggest improvement as I’ve had quite a few losing positions won on time.

[GGG]

Rook to B6

You move the knight you lose the pawn so you protect the knight with the rook then the king moves to G5 to threat knight and rook and pawn. Then you lose one of your 3 pieces. You can threaten the rook but then the rook checks your king and you lose the rook.

Never mind that is just mate in 1

Rook to H3 check. Essentially if he can force you to capture the rook with your king it’s a stalemate. So you just keep checking the king where the rook or knight can’t capture and you draw on moves

[FireGilbert]

You got it, although it’s a lot simpler than repeatedly checking the king. Once you check on the g file you just capture the rook. White has to take back with the knight, leaving the pawn undefended and causing a draw by insufficient material.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

You got it, although it’s a lot simpler than repeatedly checking the king. Once you check on the g file you just capture the rook. White has to take back with the knight, leaving the pawn undefended and causing a draw by insufficient material.

Yeah that’s right I was thinking the white rook would take my rook but that’s still a stalemate.

[mrkajz44]

Because you told me there was something there, the rook sacrifice for stalemate was a bit easier to see. With any sort of time pressure though that would be really hard to see. Give up my only piece? Madness!

Nice little puzzle though. Nothing hurts more than having a big lead and then suddenly the stalemate pop up appears.

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[butterfly]

Are we going to have another CP chess tournament?

[Locke]

I have this. I do not know how to play it.

[arcfyr]

Anyone participate in OTB chess in Calgary? I've been playing online for a few months now and potentially interested in playing in person too now that I have the bug!

[mrkajz44]

One of our CP members does OTB a bit. I only remember their chess handle, but not their CP handle...

I'm down for a blitz tournament one evening. I've been playing blitz more and more - just so easy to get sucked into the "one more game" mentality.