Israel declares war on Hamas

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

There's definitely undertones of bias here, but it's actually a good point. Lots of people have different starting points of the conflict as if to somehow create a tally of "who is worse", when in reality horrendous things have happened on both sides, countless families have lost loved ones, and we're no closer to peace than we've ever been. I mean jeez if we can't find any level of reasonable ground on a Calgary-based message board, how do we expect people that are legitimately fighting for their lives to do so?

Clearly many of us have different backgrounds and viewpoints on these complex matters. I think it would be quite interesting that rather than simply bickering and criticizing one another, what if everyone suggested how they foresee a peaceful resolution being reached in the region.

Ya, that goes back thousands of years, and it achieves nothing. They are both horrible. They both don't act or negotiate in good faith. And at this point they both see the only solution as a total elimination of the other side. So if we are supporting, or even standing by while Israel acts, well aren't we just as complicit as if we funded Hamas to do the same?

[CalgaryKid12]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I'm fairly staunchly Pro-Israel's right to exist and even I think you can't be so naive to think that Bibi has done everything in his power to negotiate the release of the hostages. While I don't trust Hamas to negotiate in good faith, if Bibi wanted the release of the hostages he could get it.

Definitely. I think many people forget (or don't know) that Bibi's brother was killed in 1976 during the operation to recover hostages from an Israeli flight that was hijacked by Palestinians and rerouted to Uganda.

I'm sure Netanyahu hold quite a bit of contempt towards Palestinians holding hostages and likely blames them for the death of his brother.

[CalgaryKid12]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, that goes back thousands of years, and it achieves nothing. They are both horrible. They both don't act or negotiate in good faith. And at this point they both see the only solution as a total elimination of the other side. So if we are supporting, or even standing by while Israel acts, well aren't we just as complicit as if we funded Hamas to do the same?

I don't think so. By disproportionately criticizing Israel, you will have the Pro-Palestiners saying "see look, they're the bad guys". Conversely, the same applies the other way. I think it's important to be compassionate to others, understand their viewpoints and where they're coming from, and know that (most) everyone wants peace in this matter, they just have a different idea of how to achieve it.

That's why I was so disappointed in the harsh response to my first post. I poured my heart out and shared deeply personal beliefs, and was ripped to shreds by many well respected posters on this site who I thought would and should be better than that. I would never treat anyone in that way, regardless of if it's an anonymous message board or in person. Compassion is king and gosh darn we could sure use a bit more of that nowadays.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

Definitely. I think many people forget (or don't know) that Bibi's brother was killed in 1976 during the operation to recover hostages from an Israeli flight that was hijacked by Palestinians and rerouted to Uganda.

I'm sure Netanyahu hold quite a bit of contempt towards Palestinians holding hostages and likely blames them for the death of his brother.

What's your point?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

That's why I was so disappointed in the harsh response to my first post. I poured my heart out and shared deeply personal beliefs, and was ripped to shreds by many well respected posters on this site who I thought would and should be better than that. I would never treat anyone in that way, regardless of if it's an anonymous message board or in person. Compassion is king and gosh darn we could sure use a bit more of that nowadays.

Cry me a river.

You were using the Holocaust to justify the ongoing genocide.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Skootenbeeten

Learn what indiscriminate means first. Aren't you gonna be busy listening to podcasts justifying and minimizing the rape and murder of Israelis? Seems like your favorite pastime.

Well aware of what it means my little genocidal bigot. The point still stands and is widely accepted. It's indiscriminate.

Why don't you go back to insulting hostages and their families in order to protect Netanyahu.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

That's why I was so disappointed in the harsh response to my first post. I poured my heart out and shared deeply personal beliefs, and was ripped to shreds by many well respected posters on this site who I thought would and should be better than that. I would never treat anyone in that way, regardless of if it's an anonymous message board or in person. Compassion is king and gosh darn we could sure use a bit more of that nowadays.

You kind of did treat people exactly that way?

Beliefs aren’t sacrosanct, regardless of whether they come from the heart or how strongly we believe them.

Using valid trauma, generational or otherwise, to justify causing further trauma and justify the belief that maybe that’s OK or that this previous trauma should somehow shield people from even a small percentage of valid criticism, is dangerous stuff that should be condemned.

[Sultan]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I'm fairly staunchly Pro-Israel's right to exist and even I think you can't be so naive to think that Bibi has done everything in his power to negotiate the release of the hostages. While I don't trust Hamas to negotiate in good faith, if Bibi wanted the release of the hostages he could get it.

Well they are making raids to get them. That may stop if Hamas released the hostages after all of this time. While they may be a good pawn or chip in their eyes, it just gives Israel an excuse to continue raids and tearing things apart looking for them.



Releasing the hostages is a start and people have been saying that since a right after the strike.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Sultan

Releasing the hostages is a start and people have been saying that since a right after the strike.

And Bibi could have met demands to get their release. Continuing the fighting is more important than the lives of those taken to Netanyahu

[robertsfan]

I think Hasbara has made its presence on this board.

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Well aware of what it means my little genocidal bigot. The point still stands and is widely accepted. It's indiscriminate.

Why don't you go back to insulting hostages and their families in order to protect Netanyahu.

You don't have a clue and you can't even back up your ignorant garbage. You blather on about genocide, apartheid and famine and then it's all proven false and you just move the goal posts.



Go back to supporting Hamas and Hezbollah with your buddy Putin.

[rubecube]

Bombing polio clinics is a super non-genocidal thing to do.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1830990229316018409

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CalgaryKid12

I don't think so. By disproportionately criticizing Israel, you will have the Pro-Palestiners saying "see look, they're the bad guys". Conversely, the same applies the other way. I think it's important to be compassionate to others, understand their viewpoints and where they're coming from, and know that (most) everyone wants peace in this matter, they just have a different idea of how to achieve it.

That's why I was so disappointed in the harsh response to my first post. I poured my heart out and shared deeply personal beliefs, and was ripped to shreds by many well respected posters on this site who I thought would and should be better than that. I would never treat anyone in that way, regardless of if it's an anonymous message board or in person. Compassion is king and gosh darn we could sure use a bit more of that nowadays.

Hamas isn't blowing up children lining up for polio vaccines, so, well...YES, THEY ARE THE BAD GUYS. Open your eyes. You are correct it is important to be compassionate to others, something Bibi is completely incapable of.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Skootenbeeten

You don't have a clue and you can't even back up your ignorant garbage. You blather on about genocide, apartheid and famine and then it's all proven false and you just move the goal posts.

Go back to supporting Hamas and Hezbollah with your buddy Putin.

Waa Waa. The usual Hamas supporter tripe when you have nothing else.

It's indiscriminate bombing. The only thing precise and targetted Israel has done in this conflict has been their sniping and murdering of children.

But hey you keep denying the genocide sicko. You're not dissimilar to those Holocaust deniers.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Skootenbeeten

You don't have a clue and you can't even back up your ignorant garbage. You blather on about genocide, apartheid and famine and then it's all proven false and you just move the goal posts.



Go back to supporting Hamas and Hezbollah with your buddy Putin.

Citation needed.

[PepsiFree]

Skooten, I’m a little disappointed you didn’t reply to this. Interested to hear your thoughts. Especially the bolded:

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There have been multiple times where a deal has been brokered by third parties and Israel refuses to accept the deal or makes a move like assassinating the person negotiating the deal on the other side.

Are hostages their main priority or aren’t they?According to Israeli hostages and their families, it certainly does not seem like it is. Do you think those people are liars?

Over the past couple weeks, Hamas has been murdering hostages instead of allowing the IDF the chance to rescue them. This has led to the murder of six innocent people, some of whom were set to be released as part of a ceasefire deal. Hamas has then followed up their murders by releasing videos of these murdered hostages.

This has led to hundreds of thousands of Israelis protesting and workers striking against the Israeli government, demanding a hostage deal under the belief that Netanyahu hasn’t done enough (and even now he says a deal isn’t close, despite third parties claiming otherwise).

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...hnk/index.html

Are hundreds of thousands of Israelis liars? Hamas supporters? Do they just want more dead Israelis? What are they to you?

Do you honestly believe the hostages are the main priority? He’s letting a terrorist organization taunt these poor families after murdering their loved ones following almost a year of captivity. That’s how you define “a main priority”?

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There have been multiple times where a deal has been brokered by third parties and Israel refuses to accept the deal or makes a move like assassinating the person negotiating the deal on the other side.

Are hostages their main priority or aren’t they? According to Israeli hostages and their families, it certainly does not seem like it is. Do you think those people are liars?

I’m curious what the terms of the multiple ceasefire deals that Israel has rejected? Do you have a source for these multiple rejected deals?

[Fuzz]

Here's the most recent one:


https://globalnews.ca/news/10729442/...otests-strike/


But I assume you know how Google functions?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Here's the most recent one:


https://globalnews.ca/news/10729442/...otests-strike/


But I assume you know how Google functions?

He only knows how to use it when he’s trying to confirm his own belief. He plays dumb when it’s anything he’s rather not believe. But anyways, thought this was interesting.

If someone in this thread said this, they’d be labelled pro-Hamas. What do these people label Gallant, then?

Israeli media have reported deep differences between Netanyahu and top security officials, including Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, who say the time is ripe for a cease-fire.

An official confirmed a shouting match between Gallant and Netanyahu at a security cabinet meeting Thursday, where Netanyahu held a vote in favor of maintaining control over the Philadelphi corridor.

Gallant cast the lone vote against the proposal, saying Netanyahu was favoring border arrangements over the lives of hostages. The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the closed-door meeting. Gallant on Sunday called on the security cabinet to overturn the decision.

And, as I mentioned in my last post, this is the real, human cost of not prioritizing hostages:

Hamas’ armed wing, the al-Qassam Brigades, appeared to say in a statement Monday that it now had a policy of killing any hostages that Israel tries to rescue. It said that after Israeli troops rescued four hostages in a deadly raid in June, it issued new orders to its fighters guarding hostages on how to deal with them if Israeli troops approach. It said that Netanyahu’s insistence on using military pressure instead of reaching a deal “will mean they (hostages) will return to their families in coffins.”

People have spent how long just saying “release the hostages”? It isn’t a priority for Netanyahu, and Hamas is only interested if they get something in return. They were keeping them alive for most of the last year, and now Netanyahu’s lack of action has pushed them to the point of killing them.

And yet still a select few people will call people around the world protesting and demanding a ceasefire and a hostage deal, including hostages and their families, “pro-Hamas.” Pretty gross.

[Bagor]

Here's another one.

Netanyahu derailed a potential Gaza hostage deal in July, Israeli newspaper reports

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in July effectively spiked a draft hostage and ceasefire deal by introducing a raft of new, 11th-hour demands, according to a report by the Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth citing a document it obtained.

The report lends credence to charges often leveled at the prime minister – most notably by hostage families – of purposefully prolonging the war and torpedoing deals for his political benefit. Far-right members of Netanyahu’s coalition have pledged to bring down the government should he end the war.

Several news outlets, including CNN, have reported on the late July demands made by Netanyahu, but this is the first time the Israeli document has been obtained in full.

Among the 11th-hour demands, according to the newspaper, was that Israel retain control of the Egypt-Gaza border area – a condition Netanyahu has since portrayed as non-negotiable, including at a press conference on Wednesday.

Yedioth Ahronoth also reported that at least three of six hostages found dead in Gaza by the Israel Defense Forces over the weekend were due for release as part of the May draft agreement – Carmel Gat, Aden Yerushalmi, and Hersh Goldberg-Polin.


The Israeli Prime Minister’s Office in August confirmed to CNN the existence of the document but denied that it added “new conditions to the May 27 proposal.” The statement came in response to a report by the same Israeli correspondent who wrote the Yedioth Ahronoth report, Ronen Bergman, this time in The New York Times

A senior Israeli official on Wednesday said the new report was “misinformed, misleading and hampers the chance of achieving the release of hostages.”

But separately, an Israeli source familiar with the talks said Netanyahu’s demands were to blame for the deaths of the hostages over the weekend.

“Two months ago, when he (Netanyahu) put the obstacles, he said no to the deal,” the source told CNN. “The hostages died because he insisted.”

The Hostages Families Forum said this weekend that “the finding of the bodies yesterday is a direct result of Netanyahu’s thwarting of the deals.”

Yedioth Ahronoth reported that rather than accepting that proposal, the Israeli negotiators submitted new demands, making changes to the proposals they themselves had originally made......

... In a sign of the growing hostility toward Netanyahu, the Hostages and Missing Families Forum demanded Wednesday that he stop wearing the yellow ribbon pin, which has become a symbol of support for the hostages.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/04/middl...l/index.htmloo