Driving Under the Influence

[flamingred89]

I feel this thread is pretty apt for me today. I had a few beers last night(more than a few actually lol). Had my car safely tucked away at work where I'm not worried about prowlings or anything of that ilk. Wanted to grab an uber but because it was Friday around midnight there was surge pricing. $65. No thanks. So decide to take the train. No problem. I find the train kind of fun after a night of boozing and the walk home is always nice to get fresh air and sober up a bit. Well little did I know that the train wasn't running between Sunnyside and Brentwood stations. Bummer. But they have a bus set up to take you to Brentwood station. Was it a straight shot to each station the way the train would be? Nope. Basically a normal bus route winding through the communities. So took about 40 minutes. Get to Brentwood station. Sign says that the next train will be 25(!) minutes. F that. Pull the trigger on an uber from Brentwood station for $25. So all told about an hour and a half to get home and cost me about 30 bucks. It's a pretty isolated event because the LRT is only going to be undergoing maintenance or whatever every so often. But was a super frustrating experience. I just feel it leads credence to how expensive or inefficient it is to take alternate modes of transport to get home and can lead to poor decision making for folks who just want to get home.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s not my fault you can’t imagine any advancement in software that would make it possible.

I mean, hey, we have AI and cars that can drive themselves, but you’re right, a program that dictates whether a car can be turned on that can’t be easily disabled is impossible.

We have LLMs that people can defeat the guardrails on by using another AI to manipulate the first one, and we have cars that can drive themselves right up until they can’t and then crash and kill people. Meanwhile, drugs that manipulate neurotransmitter receptors — that thing you suggested was harder — those already exist; agonists and antagonists are that form of drug. It is literally easier.

Look, I can imagine all kinds of things, but just because I can doesn’t mean they’re necessarily realistic; infallible software written by fallible humans being a good example. Of course, it doesn’t even cover the money factor of getting “close enough”. How much money are you willing to spend on an otherwise impossible idea, the goal of which could be accomplished in other less costly and inconvenient ways?

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You’re letting your experience as hobbyist, which probably gives you more experience than the average person but also limits your actual perspective, cloud your judgement.

It didn’t seem fair to use my professional experience in software engineering as top-trumps for “no experience either way but won’t listen to reason”. Plus, my hobbyist experience is directly with factory module programming software for cars.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You should know the limits of your own knowledge.

This is rich. Since you’re apparently a fan of AI, go ask an LLM of your choosing “Is it possible to write unhackable software?” If you won’t listen to me, maybe you’ll listen to —gestures broadly— the rest of the world.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by flamingred89

I feel this thread is pretty apt for me today. I had a few beers last night(more than a few actually lol). Had my car safely tucked away at work where I'm not worried about prowlings or anything of that ilk. Wanted to grab an uber but because it was Friday around midnight there was surge pricing. $65. No thanks. So decide to take the train. No problem. I find the train kind of fun after a night of boozing and the walk home is always nice to get fresh air and sober up a bit. Well little did I know that the train wasn't running between Sunnyside and Brentwood stations. Bummer. But they have a bus set up to take you to Brentwood station. Was it a straight shot to each station the way the train would be? Nope. Basically a normal bus route winding through the communities. So took about 40 minutes. Get to Brentwood station. Sign says that the next train will be 25(!) minutes. F that. Pull the trigger on an uber from Brentwood station for $25. So all told about an hour and a half to get home and cost me about 30 bucks. It's a pretty isolated event because the LRT is only going to be undergoing maintenance or whatever every so often. But was a super frustrating experience. I just feel it leads credence to how expensive or inefficient it is to take alternate modes of transport to get home and can lead to poor decision making for folks who just want to get home.

It has me thinking... how about a credit system of some kind? Basically you receive a credit for being sober and driving someone home who is inebriated, which you can then pay forward to someone else when you are inebriated and need a ride home.

Not sure if such a system would be feasible, but it's worth giving some thought to.

[stamps]

https://www.thezebra.com/resources/r...driving-study/ ...not on topic but interesting


https://calgary.citynews.ca/2021/12/...driving-stats/ ...on topic

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

It has me thinking... how about a credit system of some kind? Basically you receive a credit for being sober and driving someone home who is inebriated, which you can then pay forward to someone else when you are inebriated and need a ride home.

Not sure if such a system would be feasible, but it's worth giving some thought to.

It’s called money . You can exchange or charge for goods and services

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

It has me thinking... how about a credit system of some kind? Basically you receive a credit for being sober and driving someone home who is inebriated, which you can then pay forward to someone else when you are inebriated and need a ride home.



Not sure if such a system would be feasible, but it's worth giving some thought to.

It's very dystopian


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soci...20restrictions.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by flamingred89

I feel this thread is pretty apt for me today. I had a few beers last night(more than a few actually lol). Had my car safely tucked away at work where I'm not worried about prowlings or anything of that ilk. Wanted to grab an uber but because it was Friday around midnight there was surge pricing. $65. No thanks. So decide to take the train. No problem. I find the train kind of fun after a night of boozing and the walk home is always nice to get fresh air and sober up a bit. Well little did I know that the train wasn't running between Sunnyside and Brentwood stations. Bummer. But they have a bus set up to take you to Brentwood station. Was it a straight shot to each station the way the train would be? Nope. Basically a normal bus route winding through the communities. So took about 40 minutes. Get to Brentwood station. Sign says that the next train will be 25(!) minutes. F that. Pull the trigger on an uber from Brentwood station for $25. So all told about an hour and a half to get home and cost me about 30 bucks. It's a pretty isolated event because the LRT is only going to be undergoing maintenance or whatever every so often. But was a super frustrating experience. I just feel it leads credence to how expensive or inefficient it is to take alternate modes of transport to get home and can lead to poor decision making for folks who just want to get home.

Are you justifying drink driving based on your perception of the difficulty of getting home via transit or rideshare?

Here's a thought: if you're planning on drinking, maybe check the maintenance schedule. Try to avoid peak times for rideshare apps or accept that if you've been drinking, it might cost a pretty penny to get home but that's much better than getting behind the wheel when you're inebriated and potentially ending your own life or someone else's because of one bad decision.

Get a hotel room in the city. Sleep on the street. Sleep in your car. Anything is better than drink driving.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Are you justifying drink driving based on your perception of the difficulty of getting home via transit or rideshare?

He’s very clearly not doing that, and instead acknowledging that transit/ride shares are expensive, inconvenient, or both, which does nothing to help situations with poor decision-makers.

I wouldn’t be surprise if drunk-driving was less common in cities with great transit and inexpensive ride sharing options. And I don’t think the lesson we should take from that is “sleep on the street.”

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

He’s very clearly not doing that, and instead acknowledging that transit/ride shares are expensive, inconvenient, or both, which does nothing to help situations with poor decision-makers.

I wouldn’t be surprise if drunk-driving was less common in cities with great transit and inexpensive ride sharing options. And I don’t think the lesson we should take from that is “sleep on the street.”

The problem is, the city/province can't improve the transit network overnight. It takes time.

Rideshare apps work on a supply and demand model, also known as capitalism. Are you also suggesting we pivot from capitalism?

Individual responsibility is still a thing. Try telling the mother of the 15-year-old kid you just mowed down that uber prices were surging.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

The problem is, the city/province can't improve the transit network overnight. It takes time.

Rideshare apps work on a supply and demand model, also known as capitalism. Are you also suggesting we pivot from capitalism?

Individual responsibility is still a thing. Try telling the mother of the 15-year-old kid you just mowed down that uber prices were surging.

What are you even arguing? The person you quoted said they still made all the right decisions but that it was expensive and inconvenient. Who are you explaining personal responsibility to?

And yes, fixing and improving things takes time. What’s your point?

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What are you even arguing? The person you quoted said they still made all the right decisions but that it was expensive and inconvenient. Who are you explaining personal responsibility to?

And yes, fixing and improving things takes time. What’s your point?

They also said all of that lends credence to how poor decisions - like driving under the influence - get made. To me, that almost sounded like it was the city's fault for carrying out maintenance or Uber's fault for utilising surge pricing.

These factors might contribute to instances of drink driving but they're unlikely to change any time soon, so why bring it up? If I've misinterpreted the post then mea culpa, it just sounded like it was excusing poor decision making because of external factors.

[cam_calderon]

Narcism and selfishness have a lot more to do with drink driving than lack of education or lack of alternative transport options, at least in a moderately sized city like Calgary. We're not talking about Nowhereville, Illinois.

[Paulie Walnuts]

What are you talking about ? He said he did all the right things, it was just frustrating.

What part of what he said was a lie? It is frustrating getting around at times.

[cam_calderon]

I never said he was lying, nor did I question his motives or his actions. The latter part of his post, however, seemed to go down the path of ascribing blame for drink driving incidents to institutional issues rather than personal responsibility.

I assume, like me, most people on this forum find driving to be the most convenient form of transport. To legally drive you need to remain under the legal limit for blood alcohol content. So you could just... not drink if you want to get home quicker and easier? If you do drink, plan ahead.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

They also said all of that lends credence to how poor decisions - like driving under the influence - get made. To me, that almost sounded like it was the city's fault for carrying out maintenance or Uber's fault for utilising surge pricing.

These factors might contribute to instances of drink driving but they're unlikely to change any time soon, so why bring it up? If I've misinterpreted the post then mea culpa, it just sounded like it was excusing poor decision making because of external factors.

They said it lends credence to how expensive and inefficient alternative transport can be, which can enable bad decisions.

Do you disagree with that?

Because ignoring all the reasons people make poor decisions and just saying “get over it, sleep on the street, make better decisions” is ignorant and doesn’t actually solve or help anything. It’s like responding to the topic of gun legislation with “how about people stop shooting people?” like, great contribution, but ultimately totally useless.

What’s the point of bringing it up? I don’t know, for one, we’re discussing things. Two, eventually, if anything is going to change or get better, it has to be brought up. If you’re waiting until something is on the brink of change then you’re years behind the conversation.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

They said it lends credence to how expensive and inefficient alternative transport can be, which can enable bad decisions.

Do you disagree with that?

Because ignoring all the reasons people make poor decisions and just saying “get over it, sleep on the street, make better decisions” is ignorant and doesn’t actually solve or help anything. It’s like responding to the topic of gun legislation with “how about people stop shooting people?” like, great contribution, but ultimately totally useless.

What’s the point of bringing it up? I don’t know, for one, we’re discussing things. Two, eventually, if anything is going to change or get better, it has to be brought up. If you’re waiting until something is on the brink of change then you’re years behind the conversation.

Well, you're never going to see a reduction in surge pricing during peak periods. That's a genie out of the bottle situation. Calgary's transit isn't great and that likely won't change for years, or possibly decades.

Thinking of either of these factors as a solution to fewer drink driving incidents is pretty ignorant in itself. The poster could've been more pragmatic and saved himself time and money with even slightly better planning.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

If you want people to do something, make it easy for them.

That's much more effective than a punishment.

Right now it's not easy, meaning people like flamingred89 will still avoid drinking and driving despite the hassle, BUT understand not everyone would.

The easier it is to not drink and drive, the less people will do it.

Rocket science, this is not.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Well, you're never going to see a reduction in surge pricing during peak periods. That's a genie out of the bottle situation. Calgary's transit isn't great and that likely won't change for years, or possibly decades.

Thinking of either of these factors as a solution to fewer drink driving incidents is pretty ignorant in itself. The poster could've been more pragmatic and saved himself time and money with even slightly better planning.

It’s not ignorant, it’s just how things actually work.

It’s the same reason discussions around reducing speeding or pedestrian incidents involve topics like road design.

Until you actually recognize and understand the variety of issues that contribute to this, you’re going to be stuck giving out impotent advice like “sleep on the street” and “plan better” to someone who accepted the costs and paid them, meanwhile drunk drivers continue driving drunk because your finger waving is useless.

Might as well just tell people to stop drinking. See how quickly society takes that advice.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s not ignorant, it’s just how things actually work.

It’s the same reason discussions around reducing speeding or pedestrian incidents involve topics like road design.

Until you actually recognize and understand the variety of issues that contribute to this, you’re going to be stuck giving out impotent advice like “sleep on the street” and “plan better” to someone who accepted the costs and paid them, meanwhile drunk drivers continue driving drunk because your finger waving is useless.

Might as well just tell people to stop drinking. See how quickly society takes that advice.

But you haven't even provided a solution? You're living in a fantasy land where there's zero personal accountability and city budgets are somehow boosted by hundreds of millions of dollars and for-profit companies make decisions that will reduce their profits. That is impotent.

[btimbit]

Oh I see, so only solutions that can implemented tomorrow are okay to talk about.

.... So I guess this will be the last post in this thread