Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

European conservatism is being overturned by strident ethno-nationlism that makes Canadian conservatives look pretty tame.



So hard-right parties govern or are in governing coalitions in 8 countries in the EU, and are the first or second most popular party in two others - France and Germany. These parties aren’t Europe’s counterparts to the CPC. They’re the counterparts of the People’s Party of Canada.

We've entered a new gilded age, the top 1% have turned so greedy and are pushing the bottom 99% so hard that it's giving rise to far-right fascism as people look for any sort of way out. We're repeating all of the mistakes of the early 20th century, except this time if we end up with another world war it probably destroys the planet

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Bingo. People acting like politics is politics every where you go are a little too provincial imo.

I love the US for all the reasons that make it special.

I love Canada for all the reasons that make it special.

But the amount of Canadians desperate to turn the country into the made for TV version of what already exists across the border are ruining the #### out of what makes Canada special. The Canadian Trumpers are the dumbest people alive, but beyond that, anyone who so desperately wants to ape the US should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps, be adults, and emigrate.

If I wanted to live in the US I would simply do that.

And, eventually, if people keep whittling Canada away until it’s indistinguishable, I’ll just do that, or find another country that is all the things Canada almost was until people ruined it.

We can agree that Canadian Trumper's have their bozo moments for sure but is that really why a lot of younger people, retired people, new immigrants to Canada and older immigrants who are retiring, are leaving Canada? I don't believe for a second that this is an issue about Trumpers or left wing Liberals and more. Everybody is to blame across the board. This is a failure of leadership, a failure of putting in good policy, a failure to actually act on concerns of the people. The basic cost of a lot of things have skyrocketed, the social issues you and I have debated about are a significant concern to a lot of people, new immigrants are being brought here under programs that are deeply unfair to them and to other Canadian's who's job are being taken away and or wages are reduced as a result.

The quality of life in Canada has taken a massive dive. The lack of opportunity is huge, the level of taxation across the board is massive compared to what the quality of life is becoming here.

Getting healthcare across the board is beyond frustrating, actually some would argue criminal in the sense that wait times are beyond reasonable. The cost of travel within Canada, dealing with these conglomerates that screw us over with the help of the government. We tax things like booze to a point of no return. New immigrants with a lot of skills are being handed awful jobs for years. We have the above mentioned health crisis, a mountain of health professionals from overseas countries doing Skip the Dishes delivery. Canada is too stupid to actually come up with an accelerated program to get these people working in a field they are required. I will repeat that again, our leaders are too stupid and can not come up with a solution! These are the people who lead us. We can multiply that labour crunch into other sectors as well like construction and more.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

We've entered a new gilded age, the top 1% have turned so greedy and are pushing the bottom 99% so hard that it's giving rise to far-right fascism as people look for any sort of way out. We're repeating all of the mistakes of the early 20th century, except this time if we end up with another world war it probably destroys the planet

Meh. We've had a good run...okay an alright run...okay a decent run.

I'll paint a Bull's-Eye on the roof of my house.

"Missiles welcome here!"

[KelVarnsen]

Even decent feels like a stretch.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Even decent feels like a stretch.

I'll stick with decent simply on the fact that we invented Wine. Without that its a much lower score...

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by curves2000

We can agree that Canadian Trumper's have their bozo moments for sure but is that really why a lot of younger people, retired people, new immigrants to Canada and older immigrants who are retiring, are leaving Canada?

The first step is to actually quantify the number of people emigrating from Canada before addressing the rest of of your ramble.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...high-1.7218479

The headline makes it sound like there is a great exodus but it using a one year spike in 2022 to really push the narrative and the largest chunk was Americans returning to the US after Covid.

Of the 126,340 who emigrated from Canada to the U.S. that year, 53,311 were born in Canada, 42,595 were Americans who left here for their native land, and 30,434 were foreign-born immigrants to Canada who decided to move to the U.S. instead.

The other numbers are a bit stale but it shows about 15% of immigrants left Canada over 20 years. Once again not really the death spiral the rest of your rant implies. Canada has issues but the histrionics in your post are over the top.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Locke

Uh...in Sweden they are trying to close immigration and are hunting Muslims in the streets.

Netherlands is becoming a LOT more conservative.

France came within a hair's breadth of actually electing a Fascist party.

Luxembourg!?!?! Thats a joke right? Do you have millions of dollars if you could even get them to open the door? Thats a closed country.

And none of those places is what you'd call 'affordable.'

If you are looking for the antithesis brand of conservatism to Danielle Smith, then yeah, these countries have it.

They also arent controlled by bible-thumping meatheads that are actively trying to dismantle their social welfare systems.

Affordability is relative. Paris and Amsterdam? sure. I'm not living in the 9 streets or Jordaan, but in reality their are plenty of affordable options in smaller centers.

Language being the biggest hold back, but their are jobs available there for professionals.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by curves2000

We can agree that Canadian Trumper's have their bozo moments for sure but is that really why a lot of younger people, retired people, new immigrants to Canada and older immigrants who are retiring, are leaving Canada? I don't believe for a second that this is an issue about Trumpers or left wing Liberals and more. Everybody is to blame across the board. This is a failure of leadership, a failure of putting in good policy, a failure to actually act on concerns of the people. The basic cost of a lot of things have skyrocketed, the social issues you and I have debated about are a significant concern to a lot of people, new immigrants are being brought here under programs that are deeply unfair to them and to other Canadian's who's job are being taken away and or wages are reduced as a result.

The quality of life in Canada has taken a massive dive. The lack of opportunity is huge, the level of taxation across the board is massive compared to what the quality of life is becoming here.

Getting healthcare across the board is beyond frustrating, actually some would argue criminal in the sense that wait times are beyond reasonable. The cost of travel within Canada, dealing with these conglomerates that screw us over with the help of the government. We tax things like booze to a point of no return. New immigrants with a lot of skills are being handed awful jobs for years. We have the above mentioned health crisis, a mountain of health professionals from overseas countries doing Skip the Dishes delivery. Canada is too stupid to actually come up with an accelerated program to get these people working in a field they are required. I will repeat that again, our leaders are too stupid and can not come up with a solution! These are the people who lead us. We can multiply that labour crunch into other sectors as well like construction and more.

I’m not sure you’re even aware that you’re complaining about both the problems and solutions to those problems.

You want it all and don’t want to pay for it. Everyone is the problem.

Sorry, your beliefs are simply incongruent with a realistic path forward.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

We've entered a new gilded age, the top 1% have turned so greedy and are pushing the bottom 99% so hard that it's giving rise to far-right fascism as people look for any sort of way out.

Isn't this called late-stage capitalism?

I've been thinking for a couple years now that if the economic gap between the have's and the have not's continues to widen to a point of no return, it will eventually reach a point of critical mass where the have not's will just physically take back the wealth from the have's (and this stage will likely be further extrapolated by the political and environmental problems that are now so prevalent in today's world). May not happen for a while yet... but I don't think it'll be an if, but a when.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Muta

Isn't this called late-stage capitalism?

I've been thinking for a couple years now that if the economic gap between the have's and the have not's continues to widen to a point of no return, it will eventually reach a point of critical mass where the have not's will just physically take back the wealth from the have's (and this stage will likely be further extrapolated by the political and environmental problems that are now so prevalent in today's world). May not happen for a while yet... but I don't think it'll be an if, but a when.

This is a feature! They just never told us that when they convinced us all of the wealth would trickle down.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Muta

Isn't this called late-stage capitalism?

I've been thinking for a couple years now that if the economic gap between the have's and the have not's continues to widen to a point of no return, it will eventually reach a point of critical mass where the have not's will just physically take back the wealth from the have's (and this stage will likely be further extrapolated by the political and environmental problems that are now so prevalent in today's world). May not happen for a while yet... but I don't think it'll be an if, but a when.

Countries are typically more stable with a happy middle class and when you start shrinking that class and pushing the extremes then things get janky. The reason I am left is because I believe that society and the economy are better off when more people have more money to spend. Individuals can only spend so much and the rest gets hoarded.
So far in my lifetime right wing politics has increased the disparity. If any right wing person can point me to policies that reduce the gap then feel free to point me in that direction. Most of the arguments I have seen are some form of trickle down economics or pointing towards total wealth creation while ignoring the distribution.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by btimbit

But safe, beautiful, inexpensive (comparatively), great healthcare, good qol, official language is english, easy for foreigners to move to and get PR and later dual citizenship, it ticks all the boxes. Except it's too damn hot, but at least I wouldn't be working outside there so that's okay

It's interesting that you consider a country to have great healthcare where health expenditure is more than 50% out of pocket and half the acute facilities are private. But I guess when someone can afford private insurance and treatment they do usually get great services.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Countries are typically more stable with a happy middle class and when you start shrinking that class and pushing the extremes then things get janky. The reason I am left is because I believe that society and the economy are better off when more people have more money to spend. Individuals can only spend so much and the rest gets hoarded.
So far in my lifetime right wing politics has increased the disparity. If any right wing person can point me to policies that reduce the gap then feel free to point me in that direction. Most of the arguments I have seen are some form of trickle down economics or pointing towards total wealth creation while ignoring the distribution.

This is part of the reason why a class revolution will likely never happen, at least not before a civil war.

The have-nots have effective been split and manipulated into voting against their best interests. Things like wealth distribution and a thriving middle class should unite people of low and middle classes. Instead, the rich have very effectively turned their ire away from them and toward the people and policies that stand to benefit them.

An angry population is a powerful one. But this isn’t the French Revolution. People at the top aren’t stupid. They know the only way to slow the clock and hold onto power is to keep people below them fighting for scraps and turn up the heat on anyone and any policy that threatens to rebalance the power dynamic.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I am conservative. My complaints about politics here aren't simply that they're conservative and I've never said that. It's that politics here seemingly actively try to make life worse for certain people rather than make life better for everyone. Provincially it's a nightmare, Federally it's not much better, except that's even bleaker because the guy most likely to replace the moron in charge is an even bigger moron. But ###### vs turd sandwich is a tale as old as time

Again, escaping politics isn't the end game here, but it is why my wife quit her job, leading to thinking about leaving in the first place






My wife has an interview at St George's University in September, so at the moment, that's the main place we're considering. We've been there before but this time we're going a week early to get the lay of the land after Beryl ripped through.

And no, before some yoho smugly proclaims 'buh that place isn't perfect so your entire point is invalid' that was never my point. But safe, beautiful, inexpensive (comparatively), great healthcare, good qol, official language is english, easy for foreigners to move to and get PR and later dual citizenship, it ticks all the boxes. Except it's too damn hot, but at least I wouldn't be working outside there so that's okay

That sounds amazing, I hope you enjoy it at least a little.

We do need more good people to stick around and fight the good fight (not taking a shot at you, I get why you’re going). Let’s get this place back.

[Ozy_Flame]

lol .... And also says everyone who moves to Calgary and Edmonton are socialists.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1829252401741877420

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

lol .... And also says everyone who moves to Calgary and Edmonton are socialists.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1829252401741877420

I have lived in Edmonton for 23 years, voted conservative most of my life until after Redford, now can’t vote for them anymore, not a socialist but you know why I don’t vote for you? It’s you. Not me.

[puffnstuff]

Grenada...haha you have drive on the wrong side of the road.
An area close to the Uni, Lance aux Epine, is probably the best spot on the island to live. Oh, avoid St George on cruise ship day.

[Bunk]

Urban Albertans are firmly in the middle of the spectrum. That’s how PCs maintained power for 40 years - because they planted themselves in the middle and pushed other parties to extremes.

Edmonton, and increasingly Calgary vote NDP not because they are leftists, but because the NDP has centrist political positions and the UCP went further to the right post PCs.

It’s as simple as that.

[Weitz]

Has anyone talked about how most people who voted UCP was simply because they think (probably correctly) their taxes would be lower? I’m curious what the response is to that? Which is the vast majority of the reason people I know voted for ucp.

All this back and forth about how ####ty they are but every ucp vioter I know is purely on money.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

lol .... And also says everyone who moves to Calgary and Edmonton are socialists.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1829252401741877420

Make no mistake, the more progressive your city appears the more she will want you to fail and she will actively do things to make that happen. In Edmonton the Alberta government has a lot of property as you might imagine. While under no obligation to pay property taxes prior to 2019 the government did indeed pay cities a dollar for dollar grant for their share of property taxes. In 2019, they dropped that to 75 percent, and in 2023 it’s down to 50%. So the province sits on a multibillion dollar surplus and chokes cities off. This of course hurts Edmonton by far the worst due to it being the capital, to the tune of over $80 million, annually.

There are so many examples of her doing things like this, she doesn’t want the big cities to succeed if they aren’t going to vote for her. She bought Calgary off last time with the arena in ine do the most crass examples in the moderne era and the oil and gas sector is still very conservative but if she wins again and loses a few more seats there the hostility will increase. She’s basically warning you already of that.

As an aside to this rant I love how anyone these days left of a fundamentalist, Christian right winger has become a socialist. They don’t even begin to understand what socialism is and isn’t, they just hurl it around.