[Trade] CBJ trade Patrik Laine (no retention) + 2026 2nd to Montreal for Jordan Harris

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Where are the Habs at in their rebuild cycle?
I don't watch them much so curious your perspective.

To me, this move looks like low risk but kicking the can down the road 2 years.
I don't see a competitive roster in Montreal or a team close to taking the next step and not sure how Laine really helps that.

Habs have one of the league's best group of young players on NHL roster and one of the league's best prospect pools. What that means in terms of taking steps to compete is hard to say, but I guess they start to compete for the playoffs starting this year.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Where are the Habs at in their rebuild cycle?
I don't watch them much so curious your perspective.

To me, this move looks like low risk but kicking the can down the road 2 years.
I don't see a competitive roster in Montreal or a team close to taking the next step and not sure how Laine really helps that.

They’re still a few years out. Too many question marks on defence. They can’t score. They need guys like Laine for depth. Gotta give your other talent reasons to stay, too.

[Oil Stain]

I'm not sure where Montreal is headed. When I think of teams with great young talent I gravitate towards Buffalo, NJD, and the Nu-Dallas core.

Seems like Montreal has an Ottawa-esque core so far. Some good young players, but seemingly not enough to get them over the hump. I guess there is still time for some of their more recent picks to blow up, but it doesn't look super promising so far.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by habernac

You’ve watched how many games? He’s teaching young players to play a 200 foot game. Stick to ####ty takes on the Flames.

don't be a fanboy and get all defensive, they have been terrible every year under Marty and he has no track record as a coach...last in the division three years straight. I don't want to hear about how great a coach he is until we see some results. If he wasn't a former star player he would certainly be taking more heat. Montreal needs to take some steps this season, they haven't made legit playoffs in 7 years.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I'm not sure where Montreal is headed. When I think of teams with great young talent I gravitate towards Buffalo, NJD, and the Nu-Dallas core.

Seems like Montreal has an Ottawa-esque core so far. Some good young players, but seemingly not enough to get them over the hump. I guess there is still time for some of their more recent picks to blow up, but it doesn't look super promising so far.

I think they have built a pretty deep team with skill throughout. If Hutson is what he appears to be then they may have an Adam Fox-like puck mover for themselves. Demidov could be a top 10 offensive player in the game in a few years. Slafkovsky looks he could be the next Rantanen. As long as Caufield stays healthy, I think they will become a team that has a top 10 powerplay every year.

The only position I’m not really sold on for them going forward is at center. Love Suzuki - I think he could be a Selke winner one day soon. But, outside of him, I don’t see much that I think is that impressive. They’re still betting on Dach to reach his potential. He might but they could really use a bonafide #1 centre prospect.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

don't be a fanboy and get all defensive, they have been terrible every year under Marty and he has no track record as a coach...last in the division three years straight. I don't want to hear about how great a coach he is until we see some results. If he wasn't a former star player he would certainly be taking more heat. Montreal needs to take some steps this season, they haven't made legit playoffs in 7 years.

At this point judging him for Montreal's point performance is a bit unfair, that team is expected to be bad and has been in full rebuild mode since he was hired.

He's been a pretty good developmental coach so far. Caufield, Slafkovsky, and other young Montreal players have really praised him so far in helping their games.

If they don't get 80+ points and at least start to push for a playoff contention this season then I think you'll start to hear more criticism of St. Louis, but at the same time I think more people expect Buffalo, Detroit, and Ottawa to take steps in that division before Montreal, and Florida, Tampa, Toronto, and Boston aren't going anywhere.

They pretty much are expected to be last in that division and kind of rightfully so. Up until now I think he's mostly done what's been asked of him in terms of helping to develop the young players, but the Heat will start to turn up.

And man it's hilarious to see you call somebody else a fanboy...

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

At this point judging him for Montreal's point performance is a bit unfair, that team is expected to be bad and has been in full rebuild mode since he was hired.

He's been a pretty good developmental coach so far. Caufield, Slafkovsky, and other young Montreal players have really praised him so far in helping their games.

If they don't get 80+ points and at least start to push for a playoff contention this season then I think you'll start to hear more criticism of St. Louis, but at the same time I think more people expect Buffalo, Detroit, and Ottawa to take steps in that division before Montreal.

Up until now I think he's mostly done what's been asked of him in terms of helping to develop the young players, but the Heat will start to turn up.

Again don't tell me how great a coach is when they finish last place every season...no team is e

If the Flames miss the playoffs 7 straight seasons and are still finishing last in the division (like have they ever? let alone 3 straight years) I certainly won't be defending their staff. I get the ninja edit but really, people who actually read my posts will realize I only defend the over the top bashing.

I'm not even saying he is bad I was responding to someone who said he was a really good coach, like he has ZERO track record.

"they are still a few years out" lol if I am saying that after years of not making the playoffs and 3 straight last place finishes god help us all.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Again don't tell me how great a coach is when they finish last place every season...no team is e

If the Flames miss the playoffs 7 straight seasons and are still finishing last in the division (like have they ever? let alone 3 straight years) I certainly won't be defending their staff. I get the ninja edit but really, people who actually read my posts will realize I only defend the over the top bashing.

I'm not even saying he is bad I was responding to someone who said he was a really good coach, like he has ZERO track record.

"they are still a few years out" lol if I am saying that after years of not making the playoffs and 3 straight last place finishes god help us all.

The first person you replied to called him "an underrated coach" ...I think you're the only one that said he was a really good coach or a great coach.

He's had two seasons coaching a rebuilding team, and he's probably got about as much out of that roster as you'd expect and the young guys have taken a good step forward.

And this whole "no playoffs for 7 years" narrative you're throwing out there is pretty false man.

They made the Covid bubble playoffs. Then made the Canadian bubble playoffs (ahead of the Flames) and made it to the finals.

You can't just ignore those seasons and then say "rebuilding for 7 years". The results of those seasons impacted their draft picks which means it impacts a rebuild.

In reality their rebuild started when Carey Price LTIR injury retired which was 3 years ago now and St Louis has been coach for only 2 full seasons in that time.

It's like saying the Flames last rebuild started in 2009-2010 and not in 2013 when they traded Iggy.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The first person you replied to called him "an underrated coach" ...I think you're the only one that said he was a really good coach or a great coach.

He's had two seasons coaching a rebuilding team, and he's probably got about as much out of that roster as you'd expect and the young guys have taken a good step forward.

And this whole "no playoffs for 7 years" narrative you're throwing out there is pretty false man.

They made the Covid bubble playoffs. Then made the Canadian bubble playoffs (ahead of the Flames) and made it to the finals.

You can't just ignore those seasons and then say "rebuilding for 7 years".

Their rebuild started when Carey Price injury retired which was 3 years ago now and St Louis has been coach for only 2 full seasons in that time

They wouldn't have made the playoffs either of those years without covid nonsense...not to mention they had Price
Flames were terrible in the Canadian division, we all know it I have never said otherwise, and won more game than the Habs so if (ahead of the Flames) is the Flex its a low bar.

How on earth is St. Louis and underrated coach??

at best he is un-rated, he gets by on name recognition right now

Its okay though the more teams happy with being terrible and not improving the better...Montreal needs a major improvement in the standings this year IMO or some major changes. I promise you if the Flames are dead last in the division 3 years in a row I won't be making excuses to go for a fourth.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They wouldn't have made the playoffs either of those years without covid nonsense...not to mention they had Price
Flames were terrible in the Canadian division, we all know it I have never said otherwise, and won more game than the Habs so if (ahead of the Flames) is the Flex its a low bar.

How on earth is St. Louis and underrated coach??

at best he is un-rated

Its okay though the more teams happy with being terrible and not improving the better...Montreal needs a major improvement in the standings this year IMO or some major chances IMO.

I'd say it's probably to early to tell one way or another for St. Louis.

To me they are in year 4 of what's likely a 6 year rebuild this season. I look at that roster and to me it's still the 8th best roster in that division.

Florida, Boston, Toronto, and Tampa should clearly be better still.

Buffalo, Ottawa, and Detroit have all been sucking even longer than them and should have deeper prospect pools by now (although Detroit is debatable IMO).

My guess is they take another small step into the 80-85 point range this year, and then it's next season that's the real judge on if St Louis can actually get them to take the next step into the playoffs.

But with the young d-core and unproven goaltending it's possible they actually don't take a step this year too.

[dino7c]

okay so St. Louis certainly isn't "under rated"

just drives me crazy every move, signing, draft, that teams like Ottawa, Montreal, ect. do is the greatest ever. Meanwhile every year they ####ing suck.

Remember 3 summers ago when the Sens won the summer? I'm telling you I wouldn't be praising everything the Flames and making excuses if they were dead last in the division 3 years in a row.

Put up or shut up time for a bunch of teams...like what does Montreal have that makes anyone think they are building towards a cup contender? I'm not impressed with their talent pool considering how bad they have been. Anyway we can agree to disagree its fine.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

okay so St. Louis certainly isn't "under rated"

just drives me crazy every move, signing, draft, that teams like Ottawa, Montreal, ect. do is the greatest ever. Meanwhile every year they ####ing suck.

Remember 3 summers ago when the Sens won the summer? I'm telling you I wouldn't be praising everything the Flames and making excuses if they were dead last in the division 3 years in a row.

Put up or shut up time for a bunch of teams...like what does Montreal have that makes anyone think they are building towards a cup contender? I'm not impressed with their talent pool considering how bad they have been. Anyway we can agree to disagree its fine.

It's funny because I don't disagree on these points.

Ottawa always gets way too much credit. They Debrincat and Chychrun trades were unneccessary , and I was also vocal that I didn't love the huge contract to Sanderson so early.

For Montreal it's funny because to me they are similar to the Flames in a lot of ways...but maybe a year ahead in their rebuild.

In 19-20 both teams were outside the playoffs but made it in becasue of the bubble rules and lost in round 1.

In 20-21 they were both disappointing in the regular season in the Canadian bubble...Montreal sneaks in and makes the finals and Flames don't.

Coming off that season though Montreal loses Price/Weber to injury, loses Danault/Tatar to free agency, lose Kotkaniemi to the offer sheet and all of a sudden they are in last place. Then over the next year they also move Lehkonen, Toffoli, Chiarot, Petry, Kulak, Monahan, etc to recoup draft capital.

Sounds a bit familiar (although I think the Flames lost more impactful pieces) just one or two years earlier.

Flames lose Gaudreau and Tkachuk coming off the 21-22 season, Kylington takes a leave...then trade Toffoli, Hanifin, Tanev, Zadorov, Mangiapane, Markstrom over the next year and half.

For me Montreal has a decent young core, but they don't have the elite center yet and probably need to suck one more season still to try to fill that gap.

Demidov, Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Dach, Slafkovsky, Hutson, Reinbacher, Hage, Newhook, Roy, Barron, Mailloux, Beck, Struble, Xhekaj, Primeau, Fowler is a decent young crop of U-25 players but they lack that true elite C piece. Missing out on the top 4 of young centers in 2023 (Bedard, Carlsson, Fantilli, Smith) probably is going to really hurt them.

I will have no issues if the Flames are last in the division over the next 3-4 seasons though, that's how you get the elite pieces they are going to need.

[EldrickOnIce]

Habs will be in the mix for a playoff spot, if Montembeault is good enough

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I think they have built a pretty deep team with skill throughout. If Hutson is what he appears to be then they may have an Adam Fox-like puck mover for themselves. Demidov could be a top 10 offensive player in the game in a few years. Slafkovsky looks he could be the next Rantanen. As long as Caufield stays healthy, I think they will become a team that has a top 10 powerplay every year.

The only position I’m not really sold on for them going forward is at center. Love Suzuki - I think he could be a Selke winner one day soon. But, outside of him, I don’t see much that I think is that impressive. They’re still betting on Dach to reach his potential. He might but they could really use a bonafide #1 centre prospect.

The Habs are the eastern version of the Flames

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Goriders

The Habs are the eastern version of the Flames

They have a much better talent pool due to their head start on rebuilding/tanking.

[Saqe]

I don't see the Habs current core guys like Caufield and Suzuki being good enough. Laine will actually be their best offensive player if he can stay healthy. Who knows how the pipeline will turn out, you would expect them to be a consistent bubble team in a couple of years but then the next test begins in the playoffs which is another thing. Right now they seem really far from actually competing for the Cup.

[Funkhouser]

I love the Habs young core.
-I think their top line is excellent, albeit lacking game-breakers
-I think Demidov and Hutson will bring the game-breaking element they are missing now.
-I think they have one of the top young D-cores in the league with Guhle, Hutson, Reinbacker, Mailloux & Xhekaj
-I think Fowler and Montembeault will be a great pairing with Fowler having the potential to be elite
-I think Hage & Roy will both be top 6 forwards once developed.
-I think St Louis is an excellent coach & Hughes may be the top GM in the league.

What are they missing? Development time...thats it. IMO - all the pieces are there for a future championship core.

Reality is their division is elite. The top 4 are pretty much set in stone, while OTT, BUF & DET are all increasingly in the mix. Montreal will not be close to the playoffs this year or next, but I expect them to be perennial contenders by 26/27 and dominate the division. They are not taking shortcuts, and are wise to play the long game.

[dino7c]

GM got 10M in LTIR when the entire league had no cap...didn't hurt

I still don't think they have the high end in the system but time will tell...they should certainly improve. That is more my point, if the players and coaching is that good we should start to see rapid improvement now. None of this couple more years in the basement talk. Their division isn't that great anyway...Boston and Tampa are massively over rated and a shadow of past teams.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by dino7c

GM got 10M in LTIR when the entire league had no cap...didn't hurt

I still don't think they have the high end in the system but time will tell...they should certainly improve. That is more my point, if the players and coaching is that good we should start to see rapid improvement now. None of this couple more years in the basement talk. Their division isn't that great anyway...Boston and Tampa are massively over rated and a shadow of past teams.

Boston??
The same Boston that set a record for the most winning season in NHL history one season ago?

Just checking

[jayswin]

Wow, Dino7c's takes are just wild, both for the Flames and against other teams. Just twists everything to where he wants to be on any given point he wants to make.

My favorite is Montreal missing the playoffs for 7 straight seasons when they literally made the Cup finals 3 years ago. Also, the complete 180 on calling Florida the biggest fluke team for making the finals in 2023, suggesting they'll be lucky to make the playoffs this year. His homerism and hatred of other teams is just insane in terms of the opinions that come from it.