American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[blender]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Is his point valid? He’s a Canadian asking people not to view from a Canadian lens what his anecdotal, geographically limited experience tells him.

Like… who cares? He doesn’t speak for Americans.

Here’s some actual polling people can look at instead of just making stuff up: https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/...e-about-hamas/

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-re...ael-hamas-war/

I do believe his point is valid.
I didn't get the impression that he was suggesting Canadians shouldn't have an opinion or be engaged, simply that it is difficult to understand the American position on Israel through a Canadian lens.

There are obviously divergent opinions amongst Americans about Israel, but Israel is America's most important strategic relationship (American nuclear-armed vassal state), and American policy is and will always be total unconditional support. American politicians will make the right noises about ceasefires and Palestinian rights, but when it comes to it, Israel is unassailable.
Harris and the Democrats know this, even if they don't want to advertise it.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Here’s some actual polling people can look at instead of just making stuff up: https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/...e-about-hamas/

Having an opinion on something is a lot different than it being something that would sway your vote. Even in that poll 1 in 4 reply “unsure”, which probably falls more into ‘I don’t know’ or ‘I don’t care’. I’d bet nearly every voting American doesn’t have foreign policy in their top 5 policy priorities, let alone specifically any sway coming from the Hamas/Israel issue.

Not even mentioned in the Top 20 overall policy priorities for voters:

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...g-the-economy/

Barely cracking the Top 15 for overall foreign policy priorities for voters:

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2...cy-priorities/

And even though support for a cease fire has increased over the past few years, particularly with Democrats, it isn’t an issue that will change your vote. There is probably close to zero undecided voters waiting to decided who to vote for based on what a candidate will or won’t do with the Hamas/Israel issue.


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[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blender

I do believe his point is valid.
I didn't get the impression that he was suggesting Canadians shouldn't have an opinion or be engaged, simply that it is difficult to understand the American position on Israel through a Canadian lens.

There are obviously divergent opinions amongst Americans about Israel, but Israel is America's most important strategic relationship (American nuclear-armed vassal state), and American policy is and will always be total unconditional support. American politicians will make the right noises about ceasefires and Palestinian rights, but when it comes to it, Israel is unassailable.
Harris and the Democrats know this, even if they don't want to advertise it.

Which totally invalidates his point.

If someone wants to make the point that American policy on Israel is limited in its flexibility because it’s a strategic ally in the middle east that gives them influence and access in the area, sure.

If someone wants to make the point that:
- support for Israel is something very few Americans are going to budge on
- support for Israel is unwavering and almost every American is going to view this current issue as an extension of 9/11.
- The response from Israel is justified because of what Hamas did.
- The Palestinian people don't matter anymore than the Afghanis or Iraqis did after 9/11.
- no one really cares about them.
- What is a complex issue is distilled down to team sports and the Israelis are on Team America.
- Americans will continue to rally around Israel regardless of what they do.

Then I’m sorry, that’s not valid. It’s ignorant and goes directly against what actual research shows. To put the cherry on top watching a Canadian scold other Canadians about not putting their Canadian lens on American issues while proclaiming wildly ignorant generalizations about Americans is, as an American, absurd to watch.

[ResAlien]

As a Canadian that lives in the states it feels like Lanny’s opinion on the matter is coloured strongly by the surroundings he’s chosen. I see much more support for the Palestinian people, flags, free Palestine etc than anything else. But that’s just my individual experience and I’d be remiss to try and apply that to 300 million some odd people.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Having an opinion on something is a lot different than it being something that would sway your vote. Even in that poll 1 in 4 reply “unsure”, which probably falls more into ‘I don’t know’ or ‘I don’t care’. I’d bet nearly every voting American doesn’t have foreign policy in their top 5 policy priorities, let alone specifically any sway coming from the Hamas/Israel issue.

Not even mentioned in the Top 20 overall policy priorities for voters:

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...g-the-economy/

Barely cracking the Top 15 for overall foreign policy priorities for voters:

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2...cy-priorities/

And even though support for a cease fire has increased over the past few years, particularly with Democrats, it isn’t an issue that will change your vote. There is probably close to zero undecided voters waiting to decided who to vote for based on what a candidate will or won’t do with the Hamas/Israel issue.


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I’m not saying it’s a top 5, vote swaying issue, or that anyone that takes issue with the Democrats being too pro-Israel are going to vote Republican.

But saying most Americans don’t have foreign policy as a vote-deciding issue is a hell of a lot more accurate and valid than saying most Americans blindly support Israel “becuz 9/11 & Team America hur dur!”

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’m not saying it’s a top 5, vote swaying issue, or that anyone that takes issue with the Democrats being too pro-Israel are going to vote Republican.

But saying most Americans don’t have foreign policy as a vote-deciding issue is a hell of a lot more accurate and valid than saying most Americans blindly support Israel “becuz 9/11 & Team America hur dur!”

Fair enough. Although there is mixed feelings in the public, the government support is clearly and blindly on Israel’s side. Thats how I was taking his comments. If he was trying to paint all voters as one then I missed that (which is possible), but it isn’t an issue most Americans care or talk about even if they hold opinions on it. I recently read an article surveying college students and not a single one said this issue would move the needle for them for one party or the other and that’s arguably the biggest demographic for Palestine support. So it is no surprise that candidates are staying neutral. You can only lose votes talking policy on it.


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[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

As a Canadian that lives in the states it feels like Lanny’s opinion on the matter is coloured strongly by the surroundings he’s chosen. I see much more support for the Palestinian people, flags, free Palestine etc than anything else. But that’s just my individual experience and I’d be remiss to try and apply that to 300 million some odd people.

Fair comment, but I'm not doubting support for Palestine. In fact, I was one who posted the Pew polling data several weeks ago that shows a great degree of sympathy toward the situation the Palestinians find themselves. The issue is NOT the sympathy held toward the Palestinians, the issue is the policy of the parties in question and the choice for the American people. This is one of those areas where neither party gives a flying #### about what you or I feel about Palestinians, it is about the support for the state of Israel and the defense of Israel's existence. THAT is the issue for the parties and voters, and neither party is going to abandon Israel or penalize Israel in any meaningful way. THIS is the issue to understand. THIS is what voters have to understand when they cast their ballot. You have to choose between a party that might limit access to armaments as a means to force them to the negotiation table, or a party that will happily give them any armament they want to eradicate the Palestinian people on Israeli territory.

Simple questions for you. Knowing your sympathies toward the Palestinians what choice do you have as a vote? As someone living n the United States and supposedly seeing "stuff," is our foreign policy likely to change in any shape or fashion because of any leftist protest or shenanigans? Or are both parties fully entrenched behind Israel, and we have to pick the party that will do the least to harm the Palestinian people while supporting the region's only reliable ally?

[Dion]

during an appearance on hbo's "real time" on friday night, longtime democratic strategist james carville offered some blunt advice to a republican lawmaker on what the future holds for his party if donald trump remains a black cloud over the gop.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1827317361059275162

[Dion]

James Carville, Fox’s Hannity get in intense exchange over border, mass shootings

“I would have great difficulty — as anyone would have — great difficulty, telling the parents in Uvalde how your children were slaughtered with a legal weapon that no one has any need to have,” Carville said.

Hannity interjected, “They would be alive … if we secured the border.”

“The border had nothing to do with this, please. Fact check me, please. Fact check me,” the Democratic pundit hit back. “The border had nothing to do with these mass shootings, with these AR-15.”

Carville acknowledged that the border policy under President Biden could be better. He pointed to the bipartisan border deal that was ready to be passed earlier this year, but was tanked by Republicans, a decision likely influenced by former President Trump’s call to vote it down.

“We all have difficult questions that we have to ask. Anybody can say that. We can sit in the peanut gallery and throw peanuts,” Carville said. “I think border crossings right now are about the same as they were when President Biden took office. Was there, I think ineffective border policy at one time? Yes.”

“But right now, when you look at Senator Lankford and Senator Murphy’s plan, that was negotiated and Donald Trump killed it. That’s a fact. Y’all can fact-check me,” he added.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/james-carv...171046253.html

[Ped]

School shooting make the GOP absolutely disgusting reprehensible, but blaming them on immigrants is another world level of ######baggery.

[wittynickname]

Hey guys an interview with RFK Jr's daughter is making the rounds and there's another entirely unhinged dead animal story.

Kick's taste for the extreme was fed by her dad's eccentric environmentalism. Exhibit A: When she was six, word got out that a dead whale had washed up on Squaw Island in Hyannis Port. Bobby — who likes to study animal skulls and skeletons — ran down to the beach with a chainsaw, cut off the whale's head, and then bungee-corded it to the roof of the family minivan for the five-hour haul back to Mount Kisco, New York. "Every time we accelerated on the highway, whale juice would pour into the windows of the car, and it was the rankest thing on the planet," Kick recalls. "We all had plastic bags over our heads with mouth holes cut out, and people on the highway were giving us the finger, but that was just normal day-to-day stuff for us."

There's also a great quote later on that seems especially interesting given the events of yesterday.

"Of course, I don't think my parents would ever call my own death divine retribution. Well, maybe if I became a Republican."

This article is from 2012 by the way. So he's just kind of always been a piece of work.



https://www.townandcountrymag.com/so...edy-interview/

[Paulie Walnuts]

He named his daughter kick ?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

He named his daughter kick ?

Nickname, real name is Kathern or Kathleen I believe

[Dion]

Fake Lake loves to make an ass out of herself

https://twitter.com/user/status/1827380683485884502

[Ped]

Was this the one where the teleprompter was telling her to get off the stage?

[direwolf]

They're still trotting her out at rallies? What a f'n loser, lol. You'd think she would have slunk back into the shadows and disappeared from public life after all those embarrassing court losses.

[Senator Clay Davis]

She's running for Senate, so naturally she's trying to leach of the Trump tit as much as possible. Also, you are assuming these people have shame, which they have repeatedly shown that they do not.

[PsYcNeT]

This is very amusing. Going to be a hell of a debate.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1828015417765269709

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

This is very amusing. Going to be a hell of a debate.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1828015417765269709

WTF?! It should be the opposite. Why would Harris want Trump having the ability to talk over her?

[Amethyst]

If it's true, maybe she wants him to show the crazy?