It's still insane to me that being anti-genocide = pro-Palestine/pro-Hamas to a giant segment of people. However, as Res pointed out, advocating for the right to self-determination for Palestinians is a small step in the right direction. It's also not something we would have ever seen from Biden or Trump.
EDIT: To be consistent with my stances from yesterday, I also didn't really like her using the since retracted reports of widespread sexualized violence on Oct. 7th to fuel her pro-Israel/anti-Hamas propaganda, while also failing to mention the largely confirmed sexualized violence committed by IDF soldiers against Palestinian civilians and prisoners. These things should be addressed in terms of support for victims/survivors, and not as political weapons to justify further atrocities.
Actually this part of the section is notably more pro-Palestine than the Biden administration has been to date. It's still a tightrope walk obviously but there is at least a bit of daylight between her and the current policy there.
Of course I don't expect the people protesting outside to be in any way placated by that but there was nothing she could have realistically done that would have satisfied them.
Actually, the uncommitted delegates outside were being pretty reasonable with their demands. They just wanted a speaking slot for a pro-Palestine congresswoman who had already endorsed Harris. It's pretty sad that even that couldn't be accommodated. There's also some videos floating around of Dem delegates mocking the protestors when they were chanting the names of the children killed in Gaza.
There's also #### like this, which we've seen a lot of in this thread:
Actually this part of the section is notably more pro-Palestine than the Biden administration has been to date. It's still a tightrope walk obviously but there is at least a bit of daylight between her and the current policy there.
Of course I don't expect the people protesting outside to be in any way placated by that but there was nothing she could have realistically done that would have satisfied them.
They have been saying that for months. Its just more spin to appeal to a certain part of the party.
The US even stopped arms shipments for a certain period of time, and then sent them anyways.
I just find it amazing how the same people who are arguing its genocide can't put two and two together and admit that the Biden Administration, i.e. Harris, is actually leading the way in making sure Israel can carry out the so called genocide. The mental gymnastics to justify the situation must be exhausting.
The mental gymnastics to justify the situation must be exhausting.
I think you can point to it not being a big issue here for the average (voting) American. It’s so far down the list of concerns right now the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.
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Originally Posted by henriksedin33
Not at all, as I've said, I would rather start with LA over any of the other WC playoff teams. Bunch of underachievers who look good on paper but don't even deserve to be in the playoffs.
I just find it amazing how the same people who are arguing its genocide can't put two and two together and admit that the Biden Administration, i.e. Harris, is actually leading the way in making sure Israel can carry out the so called genocide. The mental gymnastics to justify the situation must be exhausting.
There’s actually not a single person that fits this example.
Actually this part of the section is notably more pro-Palestine than the Biden administration has been to date. It's still a tightrope walk obviously but there is at least a bit of daylight between her and the current policy there.
Of course I don't expect the people protesting outside to be in any way placated by that but there was nothing she could have realistically done that would have satisfied them.
Yeah I think she did well, in that at least she didn't shy away from the topic... even she didn't really say anything.
This is basically the most we could have expected. (Which I think is sad, but that's not on Harris.)
I just find it amazing how the same people who are arguing its genocide can't put two and two together and admit that the Biden Administration, i.e. Harris, is actually leading the way in making sure Israel can carry out the so called genocide. The mental gymnastics to justify the situation must be exhausting.
This is confusing. I gather you're pro-Israel and are opposed to the characterization of Israel's actions in Gaza as a genocide, and without taking a stance on that, I'm just trying to figure out what the rhetorical game is that you're playing here. Are you just trying to cast the people you disagree with on the Gaza situation as hypocrites for supporting Harris over Trump? That's what it seems like, which would be ironic given all the Mathgod vs. Everybody discourse about the "lesser of two evils" reasoning that just went on.
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Does Tim not fill this need? Notwithstanding he is 20+ years younger?
The funny thing is Walz is only 6 and a half months older than Harris (and they're both 3 years younger than Obama).
They're either very young Boomers or very old Gen-Xers. I believe some call that subset "Generation Jones" because they were always trying to "keep up with the Joneses", while just getting the scraps from the older Boomers.
The Clintons are basically the poster children for Boomer Democrats.
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Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
If they'd wanted to lean fully into the "boomer guy replacement" they would have just gone with Roy Cooper as VP. That dude is the most boomery boomer you could find.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
I think it is just as simple as the Clinton's still having powerful friends at the top levels of the party and they want some spotlight in these conventions. Keep them happy, and hope a few people still want to see them and they don't offend too many.
I haven't seen much mention one way or another about their appearance other than this thread, so don't see it as a big deal.
I think he was Boomer fuel. They put Joe out to pasture, so needed someone from that generation who they recognize.
I live midwest-adjacent, in possibly the most important of the swing states. I know the people she's trying to win over. And she absolutely crushed it with her VP pick. None of the other options tick nearly as many boxes as he does.
What a ridiculous thing to argue about in the midst of everything else.
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Republicans just get more embarrassing as the days go by. At some point you would think they would clue in but maybe they are as clueless as they are embarrassing.
Not exactly breaking news, but holy moly is RFK Jr ever a complete nutter. He’s way way out there. This press conference is something else.
Not exactly the ringing endorsement Trump is claiming it is.
He's just an exaggerated, more un-realistic version of the Connor Roy character.
It's hard to figure out who is more hurt/helped by him dropping him out. I'd guess a lot of his supporters just won't vote. He's got a pretty mixed bag of supporters from all over the political spectrum.
PLEASE stop trying to apply your Canadian lens to American politics. It does not apply. For example, the whole Palestine/Israel issue is one very few Americans are going to budge on. Yes, what Israel is doing is atrocious, and people can understand that, but support for Israel is unwavering and almost every American is going to view this current issue as an extension of 9/11. The response from Israel is justified because of what Hamas did. The Palestinian people don't matter anymore than the Afghanis or Iraqis did after 9/11. They are caught in the middle and no one really cares about them. What is a complex issue is distilled down to team sports and the Israelis are on Team America. Just like Flames fans rallied around Bertuzzi when he became a member of our tribe, Americans will continue to rally around Israel regardless of what they do. All of the leftist pissing and moaning on this issue is not going to change a damn thing. You don't like the way the Democrats are handling it, the alternative is the Republicans who will fully support Israel in their efforts to commit genocide of the Palestinian people, and then a nuclear engagement with Iran where millions of innocents die on both sides. IN the Canadian sense you have the flexibility to support parties based on the nuance of their position for given issues. In American politics it is a binary choice, and you have to support which side can best manage the issue. You may not completely agree with their platform, but the other choice is more detrimental to your hopes on the issue.
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He's just an exaggerated, more un-realistic version of the Connor Roy character.
It's hard to figure out who is more hurt/helped by him dropping him out. I'd guess a lot of his supporters just won't vote. He's got a pretty mixed bag of supporters from all over the political spectrum.
I think you're right about most of his supporters just not voting. Polls have indicated that Trump's lead over Harris in terms of second-place votes from RFK supporters is only about 15%, with most of his supporters being undecided about their second place votes. Most of those undecideds probably won't vote. A lot of them probably weren't going to anyway. With Kamala having all the momentum right now, any true RFK undecideds will at best be even or lean slightly in her direction. This probably ends up being an immeasurable blip in the Trump/Harris head-to-head numbers, mostly lost in any post-convention bump.
