American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[Ozy_Flame]

Not to worry Republicans, you got celebrity musicians in your pocket. Kid Rock and Ted Nugent have Taylor shivering in her knee-high boots.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Ah yes, the sneaky anti-Democrat agenda masquerading as taking legitimate issue with someone who has faced several rape and sexual assault allegations. I suppose we should assume you only take issue with Trump’s rape and sexual assault allegations because you’re anti-Republican? Seems fair.

IDK I guess it just seems more like an anti-rape agenda to me.

rubecube has given absolutely zero positive feedback about the convention or any of the speakers. Zero positive feedback on any of the numerous outstanding speeches that were delivered. Yet rubecube sets the thread ablaze with a obsessive fixation with Clinton being invited to speak, and the rape accusations. Also said "A+ tweet" to a tweet that tried to equivocate Bill speaking at the DNC with Trump being nominated at the RNC.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, the very concept of modern western liberal democracy is hanging by a thread, and there's a chance right now to save it, but that chance can easily slip away if people buy into the "both sides are irredeemably bad so don't bother voting" bull####.

Pretending that Clinton's actions 30+ years ago are just as big a deal as whether or not the modern western world continues, is in my opinion not only dishonest, but also very harmful and dangerous. (To be clear I'm not saying rubecube ever said this per se, but that's the impression coming across.)

I'd like to think that those who truly care about rape victims (and victims of any crime, really, including fraud) would commit to pro-Democrat messaging with everything they've got. Throwing shade at Democrats every chance you get, is not going to result in a better world for victims. Trump getting elected is not going to result in a world where less sexual abuse happens.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Here's a snapshot of Florida at the moment. It's definitely trending in Harris' direction. I don't think it's a stretch to say it'll be a battleground state by November.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/pol...rump-vs-harris

maybe not but Trump will have to spend time and money defending it, on the positive side for him it's close to Mar a Lago so he can do most of it from his bed surrounded by cheeseburger wrappers and Oreo cookie crumbs

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I guess what I'm trying to say is, the very concept of modern western liberal democracy is hanging by a thread, and there's a chance right now to save it, but that chance can easily slip away if people buy into the "both sides are irredeemably bad so don't bother voting" bull####.

FOR THE BILLIONTH TIME, NO ONE IS SAYING BOTH SIDES ARE BAD.

However, it is not unreasonable to ask Democrats to be more than slightly above the sewer-level bar the GOP has set.

Quit with your strawman bull####.

Pretending that Clinton's actions 30+ years ago are just as big a deal as whether or not the modern western world continues, is in my opinion not only dishonest, but also very harmful and dangerous.

Again, no one is saying that. The explicit point I made is, if you support women and SA survivors, you should not be platforming sexual predators.

In the grand scheme of things, what do you think is going to result in the loss of more votes from young women, me bitching about Bill Clinton on a small hockey board or THE ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC PARTY PUTTING A SEXUAL PREDATOR ON STAGE IN FRONT OF MILLIONS OF WOMEN?

I'd like to think that those who truly care about rape victims (and victims of any crime, really, including fraud) would commit to pro-Democrat messaging with everything they've got.

People who truly care about rape victims do not use ends justify the means arguments when it comes to platforming their abusers. Most of the women Bill assaulted are still alive and the Democrats have never held him accountable for it, and in fact continue to celebrate him. What messaging do you think that sends to them and other SA survivors?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

rubecube has given absolutely zero positive feedback about the convention or any of the speakers. Zero positive feedback on any of the numerous outstanding speeches that were delivered. Yet rubecube sets the thread ablaze with a obsessive fixation with Clinton being invited to speak, and the rape accusations. Also said "A+ tweet" to a tweet that tried to equivocate Bill speaking at the DNC with Trump being nominated at the RNC.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, the very concept of modern western liberal democracy is hanging by a thread, and there's a chance right now to save it, but that chance can easily slip away if people buy into the "both sides are irredeemably bad so don't bother voting" bull####.

Pretending that Clinton's actions 30+ years ago are just as big a deal as whether or not the modern western world continues, is in my opinion not only dishonest, but also very harmful and dangerous. (To be clear I'm not saying rubecube ever said this per se, but that's the impression coming across.)

I'd like to think that those who truly care about rape victims (and victims of any crime, really, including fraud) would commit to pro-Democrat messaging with everything they've got. Throwing shade at Democrats every chance you get, is not going to result in a better world for victims. Trump getting elected is not going to result in a world where less sexual abuse happens.

So rape is OK as long as you vote D?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

So rape is OK as long as you vote D?

I mean, let's be honest, if Biden was still running and had been convicted of a dozen rapes over the last 10 years, a strong contingent of this thread would still be telling everyone to shut up and just vote blue.

[GirlySports]

You guys think Beyonce is going to let T-Swizzle upstage her when there's a black woman running for president? I mean, it could happen but I don't see it. It's Beyonce or neither of them!

[Mathgod]

It's quite remarkable how you keep complaining about strawmen, but keep making them yourself and take no issue with pepsi's utterly absurd and quite frankly revolting ones being made against me.

My point is that while it was a mistake to have Bill speak at the convention, it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be. We can't hyper-fixate on stuff that happened 30 years ago when the actual literal fate of the world is hanging in the balance.

I'm more worried about what happens in the future than what happened 30 years ago...

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

It's quite remarkable how you keep complaining about strawmen, but keep making them yourself and take no issue with pepsi's utterly absurd and quite frankly revolting ones being made against me.

My point is that while it was a mistake to have Bill speak at the convention, it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be. We can't hyper-fixate on stuff that happened 30 years ago when the actual literal fate of the world is hanging in the balance.

I'm more worried about what happens in the future than what happened 30 years ago...

You keep making this about the political side of things, whereas I am talking about the human side of things. Decent people don't platform sexual predators because it normalizes that type of behaviour and is incredibly harmful and disrespectful to those they've abused.

It's not hyper-fixating on stuff that happened years ago. It's about the message it sends currently. The Democrats cannot simultaneously claim they support sexual assault survivors and at the same time celebrate a prominent, serial sexual predator. Those two things contradict each other.

[Mathgod]

Again, accusations are not proven facts. But the Dems should have erred on the side of caution.

But there's no turning back time. Bill spoke at the convention, it was a mistake, but what good does it do to keep making a fuss about it now?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Again, accusations are not proven facts. I get the err on the side of caution argument, but I don't buy the argument that accusations can simply assumed to be true.

Ah okay. So why were Democrats confidently calling Trump a sexual predator before his accusations were proven to be true?

I guess it's not "believe women," it's "believe women when they accuse Republicans." How convenient for you.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Besides, there's no turning back time. Bill spoke at the convention, it was a mistake, but what good does it do to keep making a fuss about it now?

1. It demonstrates support for the survivors. I'm someone who firmly believes silence/celebration of the person = complicity or at least acceptance. That is a sentiment shared by most SA survivors.

2. Platforming/celebrating sexual predators discourages victims from coming forward.

3. Pressure the Democrats to not invite him back again.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Again, accusations are not proven facts. I get the err on the side of caution argument, but I don't buy the argument that accusations can simply assumed to be true.

Besides, there's no turning back time. Bill spoke at the convention, it was a mistake, but what good does it do to keep making a fuss about it now?

Because keeping quiet about sexual assault/predators is probably not the correct answer

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Because keeping quiet about sexual assault/predators is probably not the correct answer

Exactly. What message does "Shut up. It happened 30 years ago and we need to win this election" say to other survivors who may want to come forward?

Seriously, did y'all just miss the entire point of the #MeToo movement?

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Exactly. What message does "Shut up. It happened 30 years ago and we need to win this election" say to other survivors who may want to come forward?

That they should only do so when it’s politically beneficial to their party of choice. Otherwise quit stirring up trouble for the good guys because we’re trying to stop the destruction of democracy and western civilization. It’s big picture thinking here, what’s a few sexual assaults from decades ago vs the literal end of the world? Not so big a deal now is it. Don’t be another fool who doesn’t understand politics.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Ah okay. So why were Democrats confidently calling Trump a sexual predator before his accusations were proven to be true?

I guess it's not "believe women," it's "believe women when they accuse Republicans." How convenient for you.

Is Bill on tape saying it's ok for celebrities to grab women by the genitalia?

Is Bill on tape bragging about walking into the Miss USA locker room whenever he wanted?

Compared to Bill, there was more evidence pointing to Trump being a sexual predator, even before you take the E Jean Carroll rape incident into account.

It's important to believe women. It's also important to look at each situation on a case by case basis and not overlook the differences between the situations. Bill's situation is different from Trump's. There are similarities but there are also differences.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I mean, let's be honest, if Biden was still running and had been convicted of a dozen rapes over the last 10 years, a strong contingent of this thread would still be telling everyone to shut up and just vote blue.

Except maybe one person in this thread can ACTUALLY vote in the election. So the conversations here mean less than nothing.

[Bill Bumface]

Just catching up on the Bill Clinton stuff in here, it seems most would welcome Dillon Dube back at training camp with open arms in a few weeks?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

It's quite remarkable how you keep complaining about strawmen, but keep making them yourself and take no issue with pepsi's utterly absurd and quite frankly revolting ones being made against me.

My point is that while it was a mistake to have Bill speak at the convention, it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be. We can't hyper-fixate on stuff that happened 30 years ago when the actual literal fate of the world is hanging in the balance.

I'm more worried about what happens in the future than what happened 30 years ago...

I’m not making any strawmen, I’m following the only natural and logical conclusion to the logic you’re using.

“You only mention rape related to Clinton because you’re anti-Democrat”
- Logically suggests you only mention rape related to Trump because you’re anti-Republican

And then you literally said rape 30 years ago was not as big of a deal as voting Democrat today.

Let’s do a little exercise with your post above where I fill in what is actually being discussed and you tell me I’m the one who is being revolting:

My point is that while it was a mistake to have Bill speak at the convention, it's (having an alleged rapist) not as big a deal as you make it out to be. We can't hyper-fixate on stuff (alleged rape and sexual assault) that happened 30 years ago when the actual literal fate of the world is hanging in the balance (an election is coming up).

I'm more worried about what happens in the future (the election result) than what happened 30 years ago..(the alleged rape and sexual assault).

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Because keeping quiet about sexual assault/predators is probably not the correct answer

Helping Trump win is not the answer either. Continuing to push the "Dems platformed a sexual predator" narrative helps Trump win. You might not think it does, but it does.

Even if the allegations against Bill are true (I'm not saying they are or aren't), the combined suffering caused in all those cases put together is very small compared to the amount of human suffering that would come about from Trump regaining power. It's amazing to me how unwilling people are to take a step back and see the big picture here.