Israel declares war on Hamas

[GGG]

Pointman just believes two things

- There are no Civilians.
- There are no rules for war.

These are rather disgusting positions but once you accept that they are sincerely held by Pointman he is relatively logically consistent. Oct 7th becomes “acceptable” (or at least part of an ongoing war) as well all the follow up atrocities committed by the Israelis and Hamas. It’s all part of an on going war.

Please correct me pointman if I am misstating your basic tenants.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Pointman

How about you admitting you lied when you said that I was Putin's bootlicker until I got in danger of being drafted? Until you admit and apologize, you have no moral ground to talk down to me.

It’s not a lie. You were defending and justifying Putin’s demands even while you were admitting you were worried about being called to the army.

That’s following years of history where you defended him and Russia’s oppressive laws before the spectre of war reared its head.

When will you apologize for the horrible things you’ve said about the innocent people of Gaza?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Pointman

You probably need to re-read my posts, because it's the opposite of what I said. Palestinians are trying to destroy Israel since the day the decision to create it was declared. That's the only issue I have with them. I said numerous times and can repeat again, that I want them to let this idea go and leave in peace. In fact, I am the only person in this thread who is directly suffering because of the war and would directly benefit if it's over.

There is is. You want them to "leave in peace". Get the #### out. Probably about as extreme as the most rabid Zionists out there. So they had a new country founded on their land, and all they need to do is leave. You don't recognize how ####ing awful that sounds?

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Pointman

If Hamas set up bomb traps, IDF would rather let it kill Palestinians, than themselves. Did you expect Israelis to get themselves blown up on those traps?

I'd actually expect that the IDF wouldn't want normal Palestinians to be blown up by these bombs since they're just normal citizens, not Hamas and the IDF is the most moral military in the world. The choices aren't really let members of the IDF die from these traps or let non-Hamas, Palestinian citizens die.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Wars themselves are not acceptable. Yet, once it's on you do whatever it takes to win. If it means, that you must take civilians and let them clean up the traps set up by Hamas - go for it.

This is very sad and depressing to read from a fellow human being. Despite reading this though, if god forbid Russian soldiers were to get a hold of you and your family (I hope this never happens!), I would hope that they don't do what the IDF did to you or your kids. I bet if you thought of it this way, you'd change what you're saying about this.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Pointman

If it means, that you must take civilians and let them clean up the traps set up by Hamas - go for it.

This is disgusting. You make me long for Nage Waza's posts calling me an antisemite.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Pointman is a disgusting human being. 0 morals or class. Nagewaza at least wasn't genocidal in his posts. Pointman is a literal monster.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

There is is. You want them to "leave in peace". Get the #### out. Probably about as extreme as the most rabid Zionists out there. So they had a new country founded on their land, and all they need to do is leave. You don't recognize how ####ing awful that sounds?

Not to beat the dead horse, but again: when you value Israeli lives over Palestinian lives and think of Palestinians as nothing more than uncivilized savages, then none of this sounds “awful”. It just makes sense in their sick, twisted, disgusting minds.

When you realize they see the Palestinians as beneath them, it all makes sense. It doesn’t matter that they are kicking the Palestinians out of their homes, it doesn’t matter that they are using force and apartheid to do it. They are a lesser people, and therefore need to accept that and leave, because then you can have a “civilized society”.

[BigNumbers]

[Sultan]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Pointman is a disgusting human being. 0 morals or class. Nagewaza at least wasn't genocidal in his posts. Pointman is a literal monster.

Maybe so, maybe so.

But to think that you are different is laughable. I have yet to see the outrage in the Ukraine thread. Nor have I seen you condemn women being raped and bleeding from everywhere and being dragged through the streets by Hamas when the initial Hamas attack killed many civilians and paraded them around.

Don't think you're different at all, selective outrage and you ignore or don't believe things unless it fits your narrative.

You are the other side of the coin so stop whining or at least be consistent.

Not only that but you actively said you hope trump wins so you could see misery in others on this forum and laughed like the Hamas and Russians do. You're just a selective ######.

I hope you can change and care about all civilians lives soon, maybe support them instead of sticking up for bleeding women being paraded after being raped.

You're just a selective outraged child who spends too much time on the internet.

[Sultan]

I know a lot of this thread is just attacking others, but I would like to ask a question in earnest.

I didn't really understand a lot of this, and I could never find out why Hitler or people hated Jewish people other than money jokes. Love Adam Sandler, so I looked a while ago and found this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m19F...=HistoryonMaps

Can either side tell me if this is a decent enough overview without being too biased one way or another?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Sultan

Maybe so, maybe so.

But to think that you are different is laughable. I have yet to see the outrage in the Ukraine thread. Nor have I seen you condemn women being raped and bleeding from everywhere and being dragged through the streets by Hamas when the initial Hamas attack killed many civilians and paraded them around.

Don't think you're different at all, selective outrage and you ignore or don't believe things unless it fits your narrative.

You are the other side of the coin so stop whining or at least be consistent.

Not only that but you actively said you hope trump wins so you could see misery in others on this forum and laughed like the Hamas and Russians do. You're just a selective ######.

I hope you can change and care about all civilians lives soon, maybe support them instead of sticking up for bleeding women being paraded after being raped.

You're just a selective outraged child who spends too much time on the internet.

One word - tribalism

Zary and his brothers in here like to label people racists, white nationalists and plain old scum for supporting Israel's right to defend itself against savages that for 25 years have attacked them from every angle, after a stupid nut job suicide bomber blows up a bus load of women and children in Tel Aviv they have a celebration parade complete with 20 foot martyr posters thru Gaza or the West Bank, thousands line the streets with cheers and signs reading death to all Jews but somehow it's Israel that should show restraint!, after Oct 7th they have had enough of this crap. Nobody(including Jews) likes war and the innocents being killed but they just can't keep living this way, for this to stop Hamas needs to give up the hostages, surrender or die, that's reality.

Zary, and the other minions are the racists and their lack of calling out the Russians slaughtering innocent Ukrainians proves this. Tribalism.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Sultan

I know a lot of this thread is just attacking others, but I would like to ask a question in earnest.

I didn't really understand a lot of this, and I could never find out why Hitler or people hated Jewish people other than money jokes. Love Adam Sandler, so I looked a while ago and found this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m19F...=HistoryonMaps

Can either side tell me if this is a decent enough overview without being too biased one way or another?

In my opinion, it is a decently objective overview of the situation. I like that it delves way back in the history because a lot of people think it started with the creation of the modern Israeli state, which it didn't. The creation of the modern Israeli state was merely a side effect of generational trauma Jews faced for centuries.

Obviously a short video like this can't get into all the details, but there is so much more to the story. It briefly mentions the Arab and Muslim colonialism in the region that began in the 7th century, but it doesn't mention that massacres of Jews were common in the region while it was under Muslim rule, whether it was by Arabs, Malmuks, Seljuk Turk, or Ottoman Turks long before the modern state of Israel was established. The Hebron massacre in 1517, the destruction of the Jewish community of Safed in 1660, or the Safed massacre in 1838 for example, had nothing to do with Israel or Zionism. They had nothing to do with 1948 or 1967 borders, so anyone thinking that is the root cause of the problems, is fooling themselves. Nor did similar events in places like Tunis and Iraq long before Israel was on the modern map. The religious angle shouldn't be overlooked. To Islamists, the existence of Jews undermines their faith.

The video also mentioned Jewish settlement from the 1880s to the 1940s, but it doesn't mention that Arabs were also sending settlers to the region at the same time. Both sides were doing the same thing.

It also mentioned diaspora Jews settling in Israel in large numbers between 1880 and the 1940s, but it doesn't talk about why that happened. They were essentially being pushed out of areas like Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, and so on. They had to land somewhere, and of course after the Holocaust, Europe didn't seem like a great option either. Their cultural ancestral homeland seemed like the natural place to revive a Jewish state.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by GGG

Pointman just believes two things

- There are no Civilians.
- There are no rules for war.

These are rather disgusting positions but once you accept that they are sincerely held by Pointman he is relatively logically consistent. Oct 7th becomes “acceptable” (or at least part of an ongoing war) as well all the follow up atrocities committed by the Israelis and Hamas. It’s all part of an on going war.

Please correct me pointman if I am misstating your basic tenants.

1. Wars are absolutely horrible. Everything that's happening during the war, as well as the war itself, is totally unacceptable.

2. Reject the idea that wars should be civilized and normalized by introducing some rules, because it creates the totally wrong opinion that wars are fine as long, as you follow the rules.

3. The nation, not just the army, that started the war, should be punished. Punishment doesn't necessarily imply that they all should be murdered, however if they suffer in some way as collateral damage, so be it. It's horrible obviously, but the responsibility is on the side that started the war.


Basically, 2 and 3 you more or less got right. You should also keep 1 in mind too though. I'm probably the only one in this thread, whose life was detailed by an actual war, and the only one currently living in the state of war.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Pointman is a disgusting human being. 0 morals or class. Nagewaza at least wasn't genocidal in his posts. Pointman is a literal monster.

Could you please comment on Fuzz, who said that it's ok to blow my two years old son?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s not a lie. You were defending and justifying Putin’s demands even while you were admitting you were worried about being called to the army.

That’s following years of history where you defended him and Russia’s oppressive laws before the spectre of war reared its head.

When will you apologize for the horrible things you’ve said about the innocent people of Gaza?

So, you keep lying and lying and making personal attacks.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

One word - tribalism

Zary and his brothers in here like to label people racists, white nationalists and plain old scum for supporting Israel's right to defend itself against savages that for 25 years have attacked them from every angle, after a stupid nut job suicide bomber blows up a bus load of women and children in Tel Aviv they have a celebration parade complete with 20 foot martyr posters thru Gaza or the West Bank, thousands line the streets with cheers and signs reading death to all Jews but somehow it's Israel that should show restraint!, after Oct 7th they have had enough of this crap. Nobody(including Jews) likes war and the innocents being killed but they just can't keep living this way, for this to stop Hamas needs to give up the hostages, surrender or die, that's reality.

Zary, and the other minions are the racists and their lack of calling out the Russians slaughtering innocent Ukrainians proves this. Tribalism.

What’s the civilian death toll on each side?

And please, no white nationalist videos to “support” your point. Numbers only.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

There is is. You want them to "leave in peace". Get the #### out. Probably about as extreme as the most rabid Zionists out there. So they had a new country founded on their land, and all they need to do is leave. You don't recognize how ####ing awful that sounds?

I'm still not as extreme as you - you said Ukrainians have every right to murder my son.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What’s the civilian death toll on each side?

And please, no white nationalist videos to “support” your point. Numbers only.

Gaza army wears no army uniform, which is a war crime, hence impossible to tell. As long, as army doesn't wear uniforms, there are no civilians.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Pointman

So, you keep lying and lying and making personal attacks.

I keep telling the truth. We both know you’ve excused Putin’s demands of Ukraine even as you were fretting about being drafted, that you’ve defended anti-LGBTQ legislation in Russia, and that you called Putin one of the best leaders in the world and suggested democracy was overrated

Or do you want to lie about any of that?