2024 Off-season trade rumours and speculation thread

[Sandman]

I actually had some arguments defending Hagel when TB aquired him. My contention at the time was that Hagel would continue getting top-6 minutes with the Lightning, and some other posters didn’t see his value.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I actually had some arguments defending Hagel when TB aquired him. My contention at the time was that Hagel would continue getting top-6 minutes with the Lightning, and some other posters didn’t see his value.

Hagel made sense.

I get it. Tampa had the win now window, but at some point a team needs to realize they peaked and its time to just let things happen naturally.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I actually had some arguments defending Hagel when TB aquired him. My contention at the time was that Hagel would continue getting top-6 minutes with the Lightning, and some other posters didn’t see his value.

It's always the risk when you bring in guys like this that aren't the highest skilled but work hard as sometimes they fit right in and click with some of the skilled guys and sometimes they don't. Andrew Copp in Detroit is another example. Good role player in Winnipeg but he's not thrived in Detroit and they are paying him almost $6 million a season for 10-15 goals and bottom 6 minutes.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's always the risk when you bring in guys like this that aren't the highest skilled but work hard as sometimes they fit right in and click with some of the skilled guys and sometimes they don't. Andrew Copp in Detroit is another example. Good role player in Winnipeg but he's not thrived in Detroit and they are paying him almost $6 million a season for 10-15 goals and bottom 6 minutes.

I agree, but I always believed that Hagel was underrated as far as offensive skill is concerned, combined with his obvious warrior mentality.

Edit: Don’t get me wrong, I also defended Attu Raty as well, so shows what I know….

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I actually had some arguments defending Hagel when TB aquired him. My contention at the time was that Hagel would continue getting top-6 minutes with the Lightning, and some other posters didn’t see his value.

I think it was more that people didn't see the need to spend 2 1sts (and other pieces) for Hagel.

Even though Hagel has been great for Tampa, I'm still not sure I'm sold on the cost.

Raddysh, Moore (19 OV) , and Eiserman (20 OV) looks to be a pretty good haul in return...(Chicago flipped the Eiserman pick too and turned that into Boisvert and Artamonov).

But 2 top 20 picks is a big price to pay for Hagel, even though he has really improved his production to be a key top 6 forward for Tampa.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

However if you look at actual numbers(money puck) 65.7% of his shifts at 5 on 5 start on the fly, 14.9%(166) in the O-zone, 13.7%(153) in the neutral zone, and 5.7%(64) in the defensive zone.

This is why zone start percentages, as usually presented, are a nearly worthless stat. They tell you something about which players a coach prefers to put out for faceoffs in the offensive or defensive zone. They tell you very little about what the players spend the rest of their ice time doing.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

But you can pick up vets on one year deals to mentor the youngsters by overpaying them, like Chicago did with Foligno.

If a veteran is only willing to be on your team because you gave him more money than he's worth, is that someone you want around as a mentor?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

So,even on the fly, few start in the defensive zone.

The stat doesn't say anything at all about which zone the puck is in when a change happens on the fly. Those 65% of shifts could begin anywhere on the ice.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The stat doesn't say anything at all about which zone the puck is in when a change happens on the fly. Those 65% of shifts could begin anywhere on the ice.

So what does the stat mean then if it's not where the puck is at?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If a veteran is only willing to be on your team because you gave him more money than he's worth, is that someone you want around as a mentor?

Yeah, if he's a good mentor. Money has little to do with it.

Players on 1 year deals aren't likely to chose Calgary if they are a bottom feeder.

Foligno is an excellent mentor by all accounts, and Chicago is paying him $4MM per season.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

So what does the stat mean then if it's not where the puck is at?

The 65% ‘on the fly’ starts are shifts that began with changes on the fly. They are not broken down by zone, so they say nothing at all about where the puck was at the time.

The other numbers are shifts that began with faceoffs. They are broken down by the zone where the faceoff occurred.

The traditional ‘OZ%’ stat takes only two of those numbers – offensive zone faceoff starts and defensive zone faceoff starts – and ignores everything else. All you can tell about Kuzmenko from that number is that Huska likes to save him for offensive faceoffs because he's one of the team's best scorers, whereas he has better options for defensive faceoffs.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Yeah, if he's a good mentor. Money has little to do with it.

Attitude has a great deal to do with it. Do you want to train your young players to be mercenaries who don't have to earn their salary because the team is desperate to burn money?

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Hagel made sense.

I get it. Tampa had the win now window, but at some point a team needs to realize they peaked and its time to just let things happen naturally.

At the time, Tampa was contending and Hagel was extremely cap efficient with good control.
Cap efficiency is a big part of what wins cups. And Tampa is still reaping the benefits of the long term control.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Hagel made sense.

I get it. Tampa had the win now window, but at some point a team needs to realize they peaked and its time to just let things happen naturally.

Oh this sounds just like pinching a loaf.

[ForeverFlameFan]

People acting like Hagel is a cap dump. 6.5m x 8 is insanely good value still.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

People acting like Hagel is a cap dump. 6.5m x 8 is insanely good value still.

My thoughts exactly. Guy is a warrior.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Attitude has a great deal to do with it. Do you want to train your young players to be mercenaries who don't have to earn their salary because the team is desperate to burn money?

Huge difference for an older player in the twilight of his career wanting to make a little extra money. He's not a mercenary. He just wants to pass on is knowledge. The contenders likely don't want to/can't pay him as they cannot afford him.

Does Foligno have a bad attitude?

Extending Backlund when his contract is up would fall into this category.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Extending Backlund when his contract is up would fall into this category.

No, because Backlund has been here his entire career and has a long and solid history of mentoring younger players. Most of the guys looking for one-year contracts on the UFA contract do not have any such history, and I suspect most of them don't have the skills to do it.

You don't get rid of a guy like Backlund and bring in just whatever veteran will sign because you overpay him.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, because Backlund has been here his entire career and has a long and solid history of mentoring younger players. Most of the guys looking for one-year contracts on the UFA contract do not have any such history, and I suspect most of them don't have the skills to do it.

You don't get rid of a guy like Backlund and bring in just whatever veteran will sign because you overpay him.

So now the argument is that there are no mentors out there, so you need to hang on to these veterans Calgary has.

What skills does Kadri have in mentering young players. He who gave up a few seasons ago and floated through the end of the season? Anderson?

[Jason14h]

So if Backlund signed elsewhere he wouldn’t be a good mentor on that team or be able to show them how to do things the right way because he would now be a mercenary ?