Israel declares war on Hamas

[Zary's-Mustache]

Funny how everyone all of a sudden cares about children being bombed...hmmmmm I wonder why.

Not one condemnation from pointman from the terrorist country he lives in. Maybe that'll happen once Netanyahu wants him to join the army. Maybe he'll run back to Russia. Such a hypocrite.

Here are the names of the kids you don't care about.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/interac...ildren-killed/

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by GGG

That article does not address the difference in explosions between an 11kg rocket and a 50kg rocket.

You made a statement that a failed interceptor doesn’t make such a blast on the ground and from this post it’s sounds like you have no ability to distinguish between the two.

While I agree this attack is likely Hazbolah or a faction allied with them you appear to have just made up that you can differentiate between an iron dome missle explosion and a hezbolah rocket explosion. Why would you do that rather than just wait for corroboration.

The correct response even if it was an iron dome missle is that iron dome missles wouldn’t have been launched without the initial firing of rockets. Casualties from defensive equipment is the fault of the aggressor.

I made a statement that Hezbollah rocket has 5 times bigger warhead than Israel rocket, so it is possible to tell which rocket it was based on the size of the blast. I never claimed that I'm personally qualified to make this deduction. I only explained why and how it is possible to tell between a blast from those two rockets and how people more qualified than me arrived at that conclusion.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Funny how everyone all of a sudden cares about children being bombed...hmmmmm I wonder why.

Not one condemnation from pointman from the terrorist country he lives in. Maybe that'll happen once Netanyahu wants him to join the army. Maybe he'll run back to Russia. Such a hypocrite.

Here are the names of the kids you don't care about.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/interac...ildren-killed/

That's total false that I may resort to report. It's being long proven, including in this thread, that I condemned Russian invasion of Ukraine from the start and applied for Israeli citizenship literally half a year before the army draft. In fact, I did it when Russia was still expected to win soon.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

It's not complex at all. They're not Muslims and themselves don't identify as Muslims.

You can't finish your sentence with most don't identify as Muslims but consider it a complex question.

Muslims also believe Jesus is a prophet does that mean they are Christians? Just because they believe muhammad was a prophet does not mean they are in any way of the Muslim faith.

It is more complex than that. Ottoman law categorized people into the three major religions in the area, Muslim, Jewish, and Christian. The Druze were classified as Muslim. So their history up until very recently would have been defined by that categorization. Those same categorizations continue to exist in most middle Eastern countries, where the local leadership has considerable power and can only be from one of those three categories of religions.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Except nowhere in that article do they.

US backed Israel in blaming Hezbollah for strike on Golan Heights but is ‘working on a diplomatic solution

As the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, convened a meeting of his national security cabinet, the White House backed Israeli statements that blamed Saturday’s attack on the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, saying: “It was their rocket, and launched from an area they control. It should be universally condemned

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

US backed Israel in blaming Hezbollah for strike on Golan Heights but is ‘working on a diplomatic solution

As the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, convened a meeting of his national security cabinet, the White House backed Israeli statements that blamed Saturday’s attack on the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, saying: “It was their rocket, and launched from an area they control. It should be universally condemned

The US backed an Israeli narrative. And? So what?

The word of Israel is worth nothing. They have been shown time and time again to be shameless liars that there US will go along with regardless.

eg. The beheaded babies.

But that's asides from the point that your link that you posted in response to the assertion that you can differentiate between different magnitudes of explosion is completely useless.

The fact of the matter is that the only evidence that we have that the missile came from Hezbollah is the claim of a nation that has a global reputation as persistent liars backed up by another that, historically, has shown that it is more than willing to lie and push false narratives in order to start major conflicts.

So excuse the rest of us whilst we treat ALL claims with cynicism.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

The US backed an Israeli narrative. And? So what?

The word of Israel is worth nothing. They have been shown time and time again to be shameless liars that there US will go along with regardless.

eg. The beheaded babies.

But that's asides from the point that your link that you posted in response to the assertion that you can differentiate between different magnitudes of explosion is completely useless.

The fact of the matter is that the only evidence that we have that the missile came from Hezbollah is the claim of a nation that has a global reputation as persistent liars backed up by another that, historically, has shown that it is more than willing to lie and push false narratives in order to start major conflicts.

So excuse the rest of us whilst we treat ALL claims with cynicism.

All you can come up with is a bunch of "so whats", "lies" and "useless". What a powerless, desperate post. Since we are on hockey forum, what you do is like a blueliner is throwing a puck away from his zone, because he is not able to do any better. You are incapable of positing any kind of coherent argument on your own, so you are forced to resort to dismiss the arguments of opponents. Yet you are not any good at that either, so you don't really rebute those arguments, but rather just call them lies. Joe Biden could have debated it better.





The Biden administration formally placed blame on Iran-backed Lebanese group Hezbollah for the rocket strike that killed 12 children and teenagers on a soccer field in the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights on Sunday.

National security council spokesperson Adrienne Watson said the attack was “conducted by Lebanese Hezbollah. It was their rocket, and launched from an area they control. It should be universally condemned

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ar...heights-attack

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Misfired interceptor doesn't create such a blast on the ground.

Originally Posted by Pointman

I made a statement that Hezbollah rocket has 5 times bigger warhead than Israel rocket, so it is possible to tell which rocket it was based on the size of the blast. I never claimed that I'm personally qualified to make this deduction. I only explained why and how it is possible to tell between a blast from those two rockets and how people more qualified than me arrived at that conclusion.

That isn’t what you did though. A person was alleging it could be a misfire and you said the above.

You were presenting yourself as knowledgeable to make this statement. You just made up this rebuttal. I don’t know why this one irratates me so much but you just keep doubling down on it.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Funny how everyone all of a sudden cares about children being bombed...hmmmmm I wonder why.

Not one condemnation from pointman from the terrorist country he lives in. Maybe that'll happen once Netanyahu wants him to join the army. Maybe he'll run back to Russia. Such a hypocrite.

Here are the names of the kids you don't care about.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/interac...ildren-killed/

The simplest answer is because they’re all people who desire war and want more death above all else.

This incident is a tragedy, just like the one Israel committed just before and was completely ignored by all of them. But unlike the 30 killed, these 11 push the ceasefire further out of reach (a ceasefire which would end this side of the conflict as well, where Israel is still killing civilians at a 5/1 rate with these latest deaths).

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

All you can come up with is a bunch of "so whats", "lies" and "useless". What a powerless, desperate post.

LOL! That's it. That's your argument? You linked an article in support of a claim that is completely useless. Fact.

And, as yet the only proof that the attack was carried out by Hezbollah is the claim of an known untrustworthy, isolated, genocidal, pariah state. And the US which for whatever reason supports its lies. See beheaded babies, major command centre under Al-Shifa Hospital, UNRWA.....

I get your bloodlust given your posting history here but spare the hissy fit whilst the world sits back and treats with with skepticism the counter claims of the two conflicting. terrorist organizations.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by GGG

That isn’t what you did though. A person was alleging it could be a misfire and you said the above.

You were presenting yourself as knowledgeable to make this statement. You just made up this rebuttal. I don’t know why this one irratates me so much but you just keep doubling down on it.

It's perfectly correct. I said, that misfired Israel interceptor does not create such a big blast on the ground. That's factually correct statement. Its warhead is five times smaller, than Hezbollah's rockets. Different class of rockets too (surface to air rather than surface to surface). The difference is pretty significant. It doesn't require more than some basic rocketry knowledge to figure it out. Also, I generally don't tend to present myself as an expert. Instead, I look to support my points with logic and facts.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

LOL! That's it. That's your argument? You linked an article in support of a claim that is completely useless. Fact.

And, as yet the only proof that the attack was carried out by Hezbollah is the claim of an known untrustworthy, isolated, genocidal, pariah state. And the US which for whatever reason supports its lies. See beheaded babies, major command centre under Al-Shifa Hospital, UNRWA.....

I get your bloodlust given your posting history here but spare the hissy fit whilst the world sits back and treats with with skepticism the counter claims of the two conflicting. terrorist organizations.

You don't need to believe Israel to understand that it was Hezbollah's rocket. Common sense and publicly available facts would suffice.

Let us ignore whatever Israel said for the time being.

There are two possible scenarios: USA knows for sure, whose rocket it was, or they don't.

There's no incentive for USA to say that it was Hezbollah's rocket if it wasn't. USA wants no war in Lebanon, they are now desperately trying to calm Israel down. Assuming, USA knows for sure, whose rocket it was, announcing that it was Hezbollah is the worst outcome for them. It is by far the most likely to lead to a big war. If it was some minor militia group, it would be way better. If it was some error by Israel - even better. If USA declared that it was Hezbollah, it means that they had no choice but to confirm it. They must be absolutely sure to say it.

Now what if USA does not really know, whose rocket it was? Than even more so they would preach patience. Preach investigation. Cool down hot heads. Tell everyone not to act in the heat of the moment. But none of it is happening. They say, point blanc, it's Hezbollah. And they have zero incentives to say it.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I look to support my points with logic and facts.

Yes. You've really shown yourself to be the voice of reason in this thread.

Your logic is kill them all.

Originally Posted by Pointman

The whole Gaza population is rotten to bones. It's not a healthy population with Hamas being few bad apples that you can surgically remove.

Originally Posted by Pointman

However, this is an eye opener for those, who believe that civilians are one thing and Hamas is another thing altogether. They are all one, they are united by one goal and one hate. Who is cooking food for Hamas fighters? Who is treating their wounds?Who is teaching their kids to hate Jews?

Originally Posted by Pointman

They are all one, they are united by one goal and one hate.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

You don't need to believe Israel to understand that it was Hezbollah's rocket. Common sense and publicly available facts would suffice.

What publicly available facts?

I'm not saying it wasn't Hezbollah. I'm stating that the only evidence so far is the claim of a organization with a known history of lying to push a particular narrative.

Present these publicly available facts.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Yes. You've really shown yourself to be the voice of reason in this thread.

Your logic is kill them all.

I actually said the very opposite in the very post you quoted:

"Not a bloodlust really. I want less blood long term. The only way forward is to make people understand, that housing a terrorist organization in your country, let alone elect them in your government, will bring serious consequences to you, not only to them."

Actually, this is the conclusion I arrived to by analyzing Russian war and how Russian population either supported Putin or did very little to replace him. And how they are all responsible for the Ukrainian war. This led me to believe, that the only way to prevent wars is to make sure that every civilian understands, that if his country will try to start the war, it is him, personally, who will suffer from that. And that was my views stemming from living in Russia during Ukrainian war, formed way before October 7th.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

LOL! That's it. That's your argument? You linked an article in support of a claim that is completely useless. Fact.

And, as yet the only proof that the attack was carried out by Hezbollah is the claim of an known untrustworthy, isolated, genocidal, pariah state. And the US which for whatever reason supports its lies. See beheaded babies, major command centre under Al-Shifa Hospital, UNRWA.....

I get your bloodlust given your posting history here but spare the hissy fit whilst the world sits back and treats with with skepticism the counter claims of the two conflicting. terrorist organizations.

That was indeed a terrorists center under hospital. It was actually proven truth. All your argument on that was that while long underground tunnels and bunkers right under hospital were shown, there was not enough evidence that those were used by Hamas as command center, as opposed to some other purposes. Beheaded babies was never proven to be lies. It just was never proven truth either. UNRWA - you need to be more specific about claims that were allegedly proven lies.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I actually said the very opposite in the very post you quoted:

"Not a bloodlust really. I want less blood long term. The only way forward is to make people understand, that housing a terrorist organization in your country, let alone elect them in your government, will bring serious consequences to you, not only to them."

Actually, this is the conclusion I arrived to by analyzing Russian war and how Russian population either supported Putin or did very little to replace him. And how they are all responsible for the Ukrainian war. This led me to believe, that the only way to prevent wars is to make sure that every civilian understands, that if his country will try to start the war, it is him, personally, who will suffer from that. And that was my views stemming from living in Russia during Ukrainian war, formed way before October 7th.

You understand the current population of Gaza hasn't had an election since 2006, and in that election:

The election yielded a shock victory for Hamas, which won the most seats with some 44 percent of the vote. Lara Friedman, president of the Foundation for Middle East Peace, which advocates for rapprochement and peace between Israelis and Palestinians, recently observed that in no single district in Gaza did Hamas win a majority of votes. At present, children make up roughly half of Gaza’s population, meaning only a fraction of the territory’s current population ever cast a ballot for Hamas.

They don't have an option to get rid of them, yet you still condemn them all? And even if they were a fully educated electorate that could understand what you are saying, the reality of their situation is they have been under the thumb of Israel for so long, subject to having their land controlled, unable to establish statehood, and yes, educated in hatred against their oppressors that I can see why they've had enough, an shrugged their shoulders at the violence Hammas inflicts on Israel, because they see Israel doing far far worse to them.


I mean, good for you for coming up with a logical solution to absolving yourself of guilt, I guess. But it's not a very complete picture of the reality the Palestinians have lived with, and when you examine it from the point of view of a child who has no choice, has never had a say, and is still bound by your "logic" to die, or have their family wiped out, well, I have to question if you including having a shred of humanity in your thinking.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Beheaded babies was never proven to be lies. It just was never proven truth either.

OK.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Bagor

OK.

Jewish space lasers have never proven to be lies. It just was never proven truth either.


This is what propaganda looks like.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

What publicly available facts?

I'm not saying it wasn't Hezbollah. I'm stating that the only evidence so far is the claim of a organization with a known history of lying to push a particular narrative.

Present these publicly available facts.

Those are obvious. A rocket hit a soccer field in Druze village in Golan Heights, killing 13 children. A day later USA said that the rocket was launched by Hezbollah.

That's the worst culprit for USA, there's no point for them to lie like that. If USA said, that it was some minor militia and Israel said, no it was Hezbollah, you could have an argument...