2024 Off-season trade rumours and speculation thread

[edslunch]

I don’t buy the argument that you need to stay competitive to avoid a losing culture, but you definitely need to keep solid, positive vets around for younger players to learn from. Even if you lose the vast majority of games, as long as it doesn’t become a retirement home atmosphere.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I don’t buy the argument that you need to stay competitive to avoid a losing culture, but you definitely need to keep solid, positive vets around for younger players to learn from. Even if you lose the vast majority of games, as long as it doesn’t become a retirement home atmosphere.

If you spend too many seasons getting your ass handed to you eventually there’s no one around that knows anything different. That’s the big risk.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You can't go scorched Earth. Nobody is taking Huberdeau's contract and Kadri doesn't want to move. Like it or not those two are not going anywhere and I doubt Weegar is either.

We really don’t know who might me willing to move under the right circumstances.

Huberdeau is immovable, agreed. I doubt Backlund wants to move.

But I expect that the balance would potentially move.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It takes longer to do things quickly; it's more expensive to do them cheaply; it's more democratic to do them in secret.

The first two are actually often true.

If your main concern is to do things quickly and cheaply, you will do a rotten job and have to do the whole thing over again properly.

The Iron Triangle of project management always applies: ‘Good, fast, or cheap. Pick two.’

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

We really don’t know who might me willing to move under the right circumstances.

Huberdeau is immovable, agreed. I doubt Backlund wants to move.

But I expect that the balance would potentially move.

I could see Kadri, Coleman, Weegar, Andersson not stonewalling a move. The rest probably see opportunities in staying.

[Royle9]

Took the fam down south for a few days, back Wednesday and hopefully have a few updates.

[butterfly]

Any news on deals for Pelletier and Wolf?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I don’t buy the argument that you need to stay competitive to avoid a losing culture, but you definitely need to keep solid, positive vets around for younger players to learn from. Even if you lose the vast majority of games, as long as it doesn’t become a retirement home atmosphere.

I think that it is more that winning in the NHL is very hard, so there is no point in waiting to win, now that we've stripped this team down to nothing, so long as you prioritize youth and the draft.

Sent from my SM-S911W using Tapatalk

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You can't go scorched Earth. Nobody is taking Huberdeau's contract and Kadri doesn't want to move. Like it or not those two are not going anywhere and I doubt Weegar is either.

This idea of scorched earth where you have no contracts isn’t a reality, anyone clamouring for it isn’t paying attention.

Chicago had Seth Jones.
San Jose had Couture, Hertl, Vlasic.

The Flames are a scorched Earth rebuild as of right now. They have lowest committed salary cap in the entire league. There is no team that has ever had the perfect balance of bad players that account for the exact league minimum - …but the Flames are pretty close.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

This idea of scorched earth where you have no contracts isn’t a reality, anyone clamouring for it isn’t paying attention.

Chicago had Seth Jones.
San Jose had Couture, Hertl, Vlasic.

The Flames are a scorched Earth rebuild as of right now. They have lowest committed salary cap in the entire league. There is no team that has ever had the perfect balance of bad players that account for the exact league minimum - …but the Flames are pretty close.

A scorched earth rebuild is not when you have no long term contracts is likely not a reality, as you say, every team has some immovable contracts.

So, a scorched earth rebuild is when you move all of your movable contracts, like when Chicago moved a young and very good Debrincat.

Calgary could presumably move Coleman, Andersson, Weegar and Kadri. Or at least some of them. Each would bring in a number of futures. They would help shorten the rebuild by fetching those futures and improving the Flames draft picks. That's scorched earth.

[sureLoss]

Alex Nylander has signed an AHL deal with the Marlies. Technically means he is still free to sign with a NHL team

[memphusk]

All the ####ty hockey players in the league and he can't get a one year deal after finishing on a heater?

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't think the Flames are in scorched-earth level right now. I also don't think any team in the NHL currently is either. I also prefer that the Flames don't go that route anyway. The next two drafts are very good at the top end. That's the target. San Jose, Anaheim and Chicago all improved. I think San Jose are the only team that will be 'guaranteed' to be worse than Calgary as things stand right now.


Do I want to move Kadri? Yes. Only because I prefer the Flames to off-load that deal now before it becomes a problem later.



Do I want to move Andersson? Yes, only because I don't think I would want to re-sign him to an 8 year deal in 2 years, plus I believe that he can return quite a haul given his ability + team-friendly deal.



If either or both of these deals happen, I would want the Flames to sign replacement vets, or take on cap-dump short term deals. I really do not believe in scorched earth. This is about as close to that as I think the Flames should go.


Vets: Backlund, Coleman, Huberdeau, Kadri, Sharangovich, Kuzmenko, Weegar, Andersson, Lomberg and Rooney.



Maybe Sharangovich is borderline vet since he is only 26, but he has 287 games underneath his belt. Kuzmenko is also arbitrary, as he is 28 but only has 153 games to his credit. Rooney is 31 and has 260 games. No idea where Hanley ends up, but if he ends up as a 7th D, that's a 33 year old journeyman, though only 193 games.


I'm fine with where things are at. As I said, trade out Kadri for something in return and fill his spot with a vet presence so you don't have to buy him out later and have additional negative cap later on, and see if you can get a haul for Andersson now (like Hamonic returned for the Islanders), and backfill for him as well. Otherwise, this is a good mix. This is a bottom 3 team that won't lose 10-1 regularly. They can compete but will have trouble winning, and that's what you ideally want on a rebuilding team IMO.

Flames are likely to get rid of Kuzmenko at some point between now and the trade deadline (probably later than sooner), but I believe they are also likely to take advantage of a cap-strapped team at some point by bringing in a vet with a sweetener.


That Backlund and Coleman line will help a lot in keeping the Flames from being shelled every night as they will continue taking the tough match-ups against the opposing team's best players. Unless Coleman demands a trade, I would prefer to keep him around throughout his entire deal here. Keep Backlund as well unless he wants out - let him retire a Flame. I think the Flames are good to go this season, and will be both entertaining enough in a losing season without being embarrassing.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Calgary could presumably move Coleman, Andersson, Weegar and Kadri. Or at least some of them. Each would bring in a number of futures. They would help shorten the rebuild by fetching those futures and improving the Flames draft picks. That's scorched earth.

Players of those ages have better trade value when their contracts have less term. Anderson is the only one of that quartrt where the term will be attractive to another team. At that he still might be easier to trade after the Flames pay part of this year's salary and have some more clarity as to how retaining to trade him impacts what they might do next year.

I find it comical how 2 months out and people are complaining that next years team isn't bad enough. Who else did less than the Flames to improve their team, and many teams below them have made efforts to get better or already had many younger improving players in place.

The Flames will be bad this year and we'll find put just how bad during the season.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Players of those ages have better trade value when their contracts have less term. Anderson is the only one of that quartrt where the term will be attractive to another team. At that he still might be easier to trade after the Flames pay part of this year's salary and have some more clarity as to how retaining to trade him impacts what they might do next year.

I find it comical how 2 months out and people are complaining that next years team isn't bad enough. Who else did less than the Flames to improve their team, and many teams below them have made efforts to get better or already had many younger improving players in place.

The Flames will be bad this year and we'll find put just how bad during the season.

I disagree, term is not nearly as concerning as whether you think they will be able to maintain a certain level of play.

Weegar is currently tied for 43rd highest paid dman in the league. That number will continue to drop throughout the remainder of his contract. If you think he will play at a 2/3 level for the rest of his contract he is not a risk on the term.

Kadri is tied for 39th highest paid center and dropping. If you think he will remain a number 2 center for the next 4 years and a third line center for his last year he is worth the contract value.

Coleman is tied for 68th highest paid LW. If you expect him to be a solid 3rd liner with occasional 2nd liner upside he is worth his contract.

In a cap world where every player’s value is relative to the other players in the league the expected value of the cap allocated to them drops year over year, especially in an inflationary cap world. Koenecy just got 8.75 million a year, over the past 3 years he has produced at a lower PPG pace than Kadri. It is reasonable to expect that Kadri on a per dollar basis will outperform him over the next 5 years. The Flyers have him that contract expecting value on the backend because of a rising cap.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

So, a scorched earth rebuild is when you move all of your movable contracts, like when Chicago moved a young and very good Debrincat.

At the moment, the Flames cannot move out contracts without taking money back.

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I disagree, term is not nearly as concerning as whether you think they will be able to maintain a certain level of play.

That may be how you look at it, but it's not how NHL teams value contracts – as shown by decades of trade history. I couldn't begin to count how many times it's been said that a player was an attractive trade target specifically because he was on an expiring contract.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

At the moment, the Flames cannot move out contracts without taking money back.



That may be how you look at it, but it's not how NHL teams value contracts – as shown by decades of trade history. I couldn't begin to count how many times it's been said that a player was an attractive trade target specifically because he was on an expiring contract.

Ekholm managed to be traded and he had many years left. Guys with term don’t get traded because they are usually considered a core part of the team, not because contracts become more attractive to be traded for with no term left.

[The Cobra]

[QUOTE=Jay Random;9165017]At the moment, the Flames cannot move out contracts without taking money back.



/QUOTE]

That should be easy enough. Teams are always looking to dump some contracts. And Calgary can easily sign some UFA's at inflated value for 1 year.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Alex Nylander has signed an AHL deal with the Marlies. Technically means he is still free to sign with a NHL team

Could he still sign a PTO as well?

[Samuelsson]

I really don't like the talk of trading Andersson. He's a great player whom we drafted, and can possibly anchor the defence for the next ~7 years. Sure, he makes us better which is not what we need right now, but if we strike lucky and manage to turn this around in 2 years, then he's ripe for re-signing and it'd be better to have him than not.