[News] "Scotia Place" ground breaking and design release on July 22 1pm MT

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Slava

Sure and I guess if you think rehashing it over and over again is worth your time, knock yourself out. But it’s a done deal and there’s nothing to be gained from being hung up on it.

I think if voters make it clear giving private businesses 100s of millions will cost all of council their job then when Murray comes back cap in hand for more $ for a reno in 15-20 years I think it's more likely he gets turned down.

I'm likely still a Calgary property tax payer the next time this issue comes up, so that seems like a benefit to me.

[Major Major]

The Calgary arena deal was absolutely hooped the moment Edmonton got theirs. This one still isn't that bad, but the flames were always pointing to that as the model. Small market Canadian cities are not the battle ground to take on arena culture in NA. We simply don't matter enough and are outgunned. Nenshi put up as good a fight as anyone... Even then, the arena lacked the panache to transform the area.

Given the choices of paying more in taxes vs getting a lackluster building, I would choose the worse deal on paper.

Given the choice of having a bad deal and not having a team at all... I mean, it's not a very hard choice. I would hope that sentiment would be universal on a flames board. Pretty rich seeing a Jets fan leading the charge against bad arena deals.

[GoatMonkey]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Given the choice of having a bad deal and not having a team at all... I mean, it's not a very hard choice. I would hope that sentiment would be universal on a flames board. Pretty rich seeing a Jets fan leading the charge against bad arena deals.

This is why the owners will almost always get their way.

The Flames have been a big part of my life since the day they came to town, but I wouldn't really care if they packed up and left. I hate the deal and don't care if I ever visit the new arena.

That said, I'm a low-tier fan these days--the only thing I spend on the Flames/NHL is time.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Major Major

The Calgary arena deal was absolutely hooped the moment Edmonton got theirs. This one still isn't that bad, but the flames were always pointing to that as the model. Small market Canadian cities are not the battle ground to take on arena culture in NA. We simply don't matter enough and are outgunned. Nenshi put up as good a fight as anyone... Even then, the arena lacked the panache to transform the area.

Given the choices of paying more in taxes vs getting a lackluster building, I would choose the worse deal on paper.

Given the choice of having a bad deal and not having a team at all... I mean, it's not a very hard choice. I would hope that sentiment would be universal on a flames board. Pretty rich seeing a Jets fan leading the charge against bad arena deals.

The Edmonton deal has nothing to do with it.

Having no team at all wasn’t an option. No way they were moving. It’s about whether Edwards would have put up his own cash. Maybe he builds a lesser facility, but ultimately he would have.

We also won’t pay more in taxes…yet. We just get worse services. Then later we’ll pay higher taxes and get even worse services.

The city gets screwed, taxpayers got screwed, council is getting roasted for being spineless, flames get a new arena and more revenue, the building will be a world class facility and the fans will get gouged.

This isn’t binary. They can all be true. It’s ok to acknowledge we got royally ####ed and this is terrible for the city and still be a flames fan. Maybe even go see some games. It’s not a pick one.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by Muta

One thing I'm not a fan of is the underground community arena, particularly when there's above-grade parking present in the design concept. The community / Flames practice rink should be available and accessible to the masses ideally at street level, especially with opportunities for natural light (like the practice facilities in Boston and Florida, and like the main arena at WinSport). It's like the new practice facility was an afterthought. Sport and community should have been public-facing in the building moreso than vehicles, IMO.

Here in Edmonton I can’t recall a practice clip with the oilers there, they almost always use the main rink. I assume the oil kings must use it. As a community rink, I think it is probably the least utilized ice in the city. I’ve never seen a minor hockey game scheduled there. HSL I think uses it sometimes, but not sure. It’s a necessary part of the build I guess but doesn’t add much for the community in my opinion.

[PepsiFree]

If I’m choosing between a bad deal and the team leaving… bye.

If the market is good, it’s just a matter of time before they come back if they’re ever allowed to leave at all.

The Olympics was a better bet than this arena and we couldn’t get that done.

But at the same time I agree that this is a weird time to complain about it. I can think it’s a dumb idea and still be interested in what it’s going to look like.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

Here in Edmonton I can’t recall a practice clip with the oilers there, they almost always use the main rink. I assume the oil kings must use it. As a community rink, I think it is probably the least utilized ice in the city. I’ve never seen a minor hockey game scheduled there. HSL I think uses it sometimes, but not sure. It’s a necessary part of the build I guess but doesn’t add much for the community in my opinion.

The oilers and oil kings both practice there. It’s just a practice facility billed as a community arena. I’m sure the one here will be no different with very limited benefits to the actual community.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Weitz

The oilers and oil kings both practice there. It’s just a practice facility billed as a community arena. I’m sure the one here will be no different with very limited benefits to the actual community.

Do they not use the practice facilities for beer league and what not also?

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1815939405372166567

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Do they not use the practice facilities for beer league and what not also?

I’m sure somewhat. But it’s pretty filled with oilers/oil kings/visiting teams/men and woman’s grant mac teams.

Plus I think it’s closed game days or at least after a certain time which takes up a lot of days too.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Hard days work putting up fences. They must be city workers.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Hard days work putting up fences. They must be city workers.

Those fences are heavy as ####. When I was a teen doing that those were the worst days, especially in this kind of heat.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Those fences are heavy as ####. When I was a teen doing that those were the worst days, especially in this kind of heat.

Yep. The young guys get it put on them also. I've been a grunt my whole life so I can appreciate it.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Yep. The young guys get it put on them also. I've been a grunt my whole life so I can appreciate it.

I swear when I have to lift one up to open one to get into a locked site let alone having to set up a perimeter that huge. They earn their pay.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The Olympics was a better bet than this arena and we couldn’t get that done.

100%. The Olympics were an incredible, unique opportunity to have had the arena costs covered by municipal, provincial, federal and private money. And not just the arena, other facilities in and around town in need of repair and rehabilitation. We blew it lol.

[GullFoss]

I actually think if you dont like the arena deal you should drop season tickets. The team is stuck here for 35 years, whether or not attendance is a sell-out or 0. You purchasing tickets is no longer supporting the team. Your tax dollars did that sufficiently.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If I’m choosing between a bad deal and the team leaving… bye.

If the market is good, it’s just a matter of time before they come back if they’re ever allowed to leave at all.

The Olympics was a better bet than this arena and we couldn’t get that done.

But at the same time I agree that this is a weird time to complain about it. I can think it’s a dumb idea and still be interested in what it’s going to look like.

Imo this arena is connected to an Olympic bid, either 2030 or 2034.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Muta

100%. The Olympics were an incredible, unique opportunity to have had the arena costs covered by municipal, provincial, federal and private money. And not just the arena, other facilities in and around town in need of repair and rehabilitation. We blew it lol.

Cons outweigh the pros. Olympics would have cost us even more, a free arena wouldn’t have made up for it.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Imo this arena is connected to an Olympic bid, either 2030 or 2034.

Would have to be 2038 or later.

France is getting 2030 and Salt Lake is getting 2034.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Cons outweigh the pros. Olympics would have cost us even more, a free arena wouldn’t have made up for it.

Not necessarily. At the time, for every dollar invested by the City, we would have seen $5 returned in outside investment. The price tag for the Games was $6B - $1B was to be covered by the City, $1B by the province, $2B by the feds, $1B directly from the IOC and $1B through private investment. This would have included the arena, renovations to the Oval, COP, and other facilities (new and renovated) across Calgary and the surrounding region. This funding sourcing was very poorly communicated at the time, and as a result, the plebiscite is where we are now today. Now we get to find ways to pay for those projects on our own.