Breaking: Biden will not seek re-election

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

I mean if you believe that climate change isn't real but stop the steal is, don't you deserve to be sneered at?

If you think Donald Trump is a successful businessman, and that his well appointed boardroom on the Apprentice wasn't a set... perhaps it's more subtle.

And some of them are otherwise smart but think Jesus is legit going to come down soon.

I'm sorry so many have been brainwashed to watch and believe Fox News. They used some pretty ingenious techniques to do it - outrage attracts eyes, and positive reinforcement makes you "part of the team". It sort of isn't even their fault.

But there's a reason college educated voters don't go MAGA.

And if you're a rube damaging the country by how you vote due to how ignorant you are... yeah, there's a real problem there, and yeah, I'm looking down on you.

You don't "fix" those people btw. You just need to financially damage the mechanisms the GOP uses to indoctrinate them.

The Dominion lawsuit against Fox being the PERFECT example of how to do it.

You basically just confirmed Cliff's post when you used words like "sneering", "ignorant", "I'm looking down on you." to describe the uneducated and poor. This is the stuff that fuels the culture wars. As much as you think you are the solution, the reality is that you are part of the problem. We have seen a lot of changes in society over the last three decades. A lot of change so clearly a lot of people can be fixed. It comes down to education but people are not receptive to change when it's in the form of disparagement.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The 70s weren’t great for the average person. Look at how much anger we’ve seen over three years of 4-8 per cent inflation. Now consider living through 12 years of 5-14 per cent inflation, combined with double-digit unemployment rates. Not hard to see why people lost faith in the economic status quo.

Yeah, but that laid the base for the increasingly large wealth gap which is still the biggest issue in economics and politics imo.

[Fuzz]

Education is huge, but it isn't going to fix or change the minds of the existing confused masses. I don't think their is any changing them. You think those people who have spent the past 4 months camped on our highways are reachable? Not a chance. Gone. I think pointing out how ####ed up their beliefs are serves as a warning to those thinking of dipping their toes in. They should be ridiculed and ostracized. Letting them be and continue just gives the impression that they are fine and normal, and maybe make some points worth listening to, that drags others in. If not that, what is the solution? I know not electing politicians who embrace them is a good start.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

When do you think the ‘good times’ were in America? The 60s and 70s? Because Americans were even more religious then.

And just a reminder that the most religious demographic in the U.S is Black women.

Black women against abortion is always a shocker to Democrats

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You basically just confirmed Cliff's post when you used words like "sneering", "ignorant", "I'm looking down on you." to describe the uneducated and poor. This is the stuff that fuels the culture wars. As much as you think you are the solution, the reality is that you are part of the problem. We have seen a lot of changes in society over the last three decades. A lot of change so clearly a lot of people can be fixed. It comes down to education but people are not receptive to change when it's in the form of disparagement.

It’s tough to not engage when the right is full on lie, insult, and disparage.
I do think the Left needs an updated male archetype though. They have to let the men especially white men are privileged and suck. Get back to show how they are supporting the working class and poor white men more than the republicans.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Education is huge, but it isn't going to fix or change the minds of the existing confused masses. I don't think their is any changing them. You think those people who have spent the past 4 months camped on our highways are reachable? Not a chance. Gone. I think pointing out how ####ed up their beliefs are serves as a warning to those thinking of dipping their toes in. They should be ridiculed and ostracized. Letting them be and continue just gives the impression that they are fine and normal, and maybe make some points worth listening to, that drags others in. If not that, what is the solution? I know not electing politicians who embrace them is a good start.

What per cent of Canadians spent 4 months camped on our highways, or strongly supported them? I posted an analysis of polarization earlier where the views of extremists are massively amplified relative to their numbers. Don’t fall prey to that mistake.

As for religion, 43 per cent of Trump supporters believe America’s laws should reflect Christian religious values. Even dismissing all of those voters as unreachable, that leaves lots who are.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

. As much as you think you are the solution, the reality is that you are part of the problem.

We’re rewarded socially (especially online) by dunking on our cultural enemies. Since those enemies typically correspond to socio-economic groups, we shouldn’t be surprised when this makes for divisive, ugly politics.

When it comes to American politics, it’s easy for the extremely online college-educated, younger, non-religious commenters to overestimate the share of voters in their in-group.

55 (50) per cent of the American electorate is over the age of 50
72 (61) per cent of the American electorate is white
61 (53) per cent of the American electorate does not have a college education
81 (76) per cent of the American electorate believes in God

Numbers for Democrats are in brackets.

The median voter is a 50-something non-college white who lives in the suburbs and believes in God. Anyone interested in winning elections should keep that in mind.

https://www.slowboring.com/p/the-med...a-50-something

[Fuzz]

I know this is a bit off topic, but also relevant to the discussion.

On April 6, 2023, a woman on Facebook, who shares conspiracy theories involving vaccines, "chemtrails" and a fake King Charles, posted a video to mobilize New Brunswickers.

The Saint John woman asked people to send emails to Education Minister Bill Hogan to get him to do something about the "sick agenda" that's "rapidly poisonous to our children's minds." She mentions drag storytime, as well as flying Pride flags and teaching kids the "lie" that a person can be transgender.
In the video, she holds up a petition against drag storytime and invites people to email her for a copy to sign and send to Hogan.

A CBC News investigation has found that an influx of dozens of emails, including the petition, against drag storytime and 2SLGBTQ-inclusive education, went to Hogan and Premier Blaine Higgs immediately before they began a controversial review of Policy 713.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...266006?cmp=rss

So here we have someone who's marbles have clearly departed the province, convincing elected officials to remove rights of young vulnerable Canadians. And instead of being pointed and laughed at for being so goddamned stupid, evil, ignorant and hateful, they were given reasonable consideration, and ultimately, succeed. Why didn't the government point and laugh? Because they, too, have been raised in an environment that does not shun imaginary and made up things, it embraces them. Their religious background permitted this. We need to stop making room for hate to spread. And it begins with living in a modern reality.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Bonded

It’s tough to not engage when the right is full on lie, insult, and disparage.
I do think the Left needs an updated male archetype though. They have to let the men especially white men are privileged and suck. Get back to show how they are supporting the working class and poor white men more than the republicans.

Their big economic pillar this term has been student loan forgiveness.

If you didn't finish high school and work at a rural Dollar General for $8/hour, hearing that someone else is getting $50-$100k in tax money to cover the loans they took out for college is not going to feel fair.

The Obama administration got health care for that demographic with the exchanges/subsidies - the Dems should lean into the "we care and are making your life better" messaging.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Black women against abortion is always a shocker to Democrats

Based on what

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The anti-choice crowd has shown over and over they will come out and vote while young people who tend to lean left don’t.

Roe vs Wade is a big voting motivator though and this election will come down to motivating people to vote in the swing states. The Dems need a campaign beyond Trump is bad and have a strong economic message but they shouldn’t ignore a huge lever they have.

I definitely agree. Voter turnout is always a huge factor in the American elections. They are typically decided by a spread of a few million votes either way and over 100,000,000 voters don't vote at all. It's pretty wild.

The US electorate is defined by a minority of voters who are willing to fight to the death on a few isolated social issues and a whole lot of apathy.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Based on what

they think all blacks are progressive and democrats

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

they think all blacks are progressive and democrats

lol you say some crazy stuff that isn't true. It isn't a secret that parts of the Black demo are very religious. They typically still vote for Dems because they don't like the whole white Christian nationalist thing they are pushing.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by butterfly

They're a more diverse group of people than you might think if you don't know any. If I had to guess, it's somewhere between 44-56% support for both sides. Not at all that different from everyone else. But that's a wild guess. It's fine to disagree and certainly a fair argument to have. The number of them who exist don't even matter, electorally. Campaign contributions are public knowledge.

So you’re now saying the majority of business owners may not be voting democrat? I’m inclined to agree.

Campaign contributions aren’t always an accurate reflection of who people vote for. You can literally make contributions to two people running against each other. The wealthier you are, the easier that is to do and the more you stand to gain by hedging your bets.

Cliff linked an article that was a really good read in my opinion.

It was a neat move by the journalist who wrote it. To write an opinion piece that isn’t an opinion piece because you’re just reporting on what you read about in a book about a political theory(opinion). In all seriousness there are some decent points in that article/book but it’s still a very oversimplified explanation.

The "Donny Boy" Mar-a-Lago nonsense with horrendous punctuation and capitalization in the other individual's post was what I was referring to.

Fair enough!

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by blankall

I definitely agree. Voter turnout is always a huge factor in the American elections. They are typically decided by a spread of a few million votes either way and over 100,000,000 voters don't vote at all. It's pretty wild.

The US electorate is defined by a minority of voters who are willing to fight to the death on a few isolated social issues and a whole lot of apathy.

Yup, the Democrats could still Hillary 2.0 this if they have a weak campaign.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

This is a systemic issue that has been enabled and has developed under both parties, over a long period of time. The redistribution of wealth upwards has been a steady process over the past couple of decades

Low interest rates and long mortgage terms benefit the seller, and leave the buyer holding the bag

They have had corporate tax breaks and rewarded the investment community for growth while offshoring manufacturing jobs to low cost margins at the expense of the American working class and point the finger at immigrants for stealing jobs

They printed a bunch of money with Covid, much of that wealth also moving upwards, and rising interest rates leave borrowers stretched thin

It’s good old fashioned late stage capitalism, meanwhile there is significant investment in the politics and abundant misinformation which gives people a boogey man

The Republicans have zero intention of helping the working class, for sure, but have given voice to the discontent of any of those that vote for them, by painting the Democrats as basically the corrupt institution and the root of all problems

I don’t think that real economic issues are going to be addressed meaningfully

Seems to work for them well enough I guess. What can you do

I don't agree with this assessment.

From the perspective of a lot of middle class workers they see 30-50% of their pay cheque going to taxes (income and otherwise), while the party preaching equality has seen housing and other living costs skyrocket under their watch.

The working middle class will never get more than they put in, when it comes to taxes, so the other economic factors have to support their standard of living, which they aren't right now. As you say, this may or may not be the fault of the Democrats, but from the perspective of many voters, it is. The Covid issue will similarly be blamed on the Democrats. The lockdowns and money printing, to compensate for the lockdowns, is viewed as a 100% Democrat plan of action.

Low interest are also far more complicated, in terms of who they help. The issues with housing costs disproportionately helping landlords, has more to do with a housing shortage, than interest rates. High interest rates hurt developers, who typically pay an interest rate well above prime. They also prevent people without established capital or very large incomes from borrowing.

I do agree with you on the issue of corporate taxes. The concept behind lighter taxes for corporations was to allow them to invest the profits back into the business. As someone who runs a small corporation, that's a must. If I was paying full income tax on my corporate earnings, my business likely wouldn't exist.

Where we ran into trouble was allowing corporations and rich individuals to use these shelters as an investment tool. Having the uber rich pay 10% effective tax, while earnings millions in passive income was not the intent of the corporate tax system.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of very visible people at the top of the Democratic party benefiting from the current economic regime. This was a large part of what sunk Clinton. She has a networth north of $100 million but is telling people the solution to economic troubles is to raise their taxes.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You basically just confirmed Cliff's post when you used words like "sneering", "ignorant", "I'm looking down on you." to describe the uneducated and poor. This is the stuff that fuels the culture wars. As much as you think you are the solution, the reality is that you are part of the problem. We have seen a lot of changes in society over the last three decades. A lot of change so clearly a lot of people can be fixed. It comes down to education but people are not receptive to change when it's in the form of disparagement.

I disagree with those who are anti-vax/racist/climate deniers, but I try not to disparage them.

BTW, for those of you who believe in those things, "disparage" means "put down".

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

When you look at how strongly college education correlates to political affiliation today, I’d say it’s pretty likely that the people in head office vote Democrat. And wealthy Americans now favour the Democrats over the Republicans by fairly wide margins.

This realignment is disorienting to a lot of people. But consider the fact most voters on do not have a college education, it’s one parties of the centre-left need to get a handle on.

But you don’t have to look further than this forum to see champions of the left sneering at uneducated rubes. There’s a powerful class antagonism fuelling the culture wars and political partisanship.

You’re really moving the goalposts here. You previously stated that the majority of bosses vote Democrat, now you’re switching gears and saying that the more educated someone is that more likely they are to vote Democrat.

Can you back up your claim that the majority of bosses(whether you mean supervisors or actual business owners) vote for democrats?

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I disagree with those who are anti-vax/racist/climate deniers, but I try not to disparage them.

BTW, for those of you who believe in those things, "disparage" means "put down".

Breaking out the Newhart joke.

[Harry Lime]

I'm not sure if it's been talked about, but the Dems are doing a remote vote on who the candidate will be, 12 days before the convention. With other candidates not able to effectively run at the con, Harris is almost a shoe in.

A whole new lack of democracy, cloaked in the trappings of democracy.