Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I think the Liberals are bad.

I think the Liberals are REALLY bad!

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I think the Liberals are REALLY bad!

I don't actually think the Liberals are that bad...

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I don't actually think the Liberals are that bad...

What?!?!?!?!?!

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

What?!?!?!?!?!

Yup, I said they're not that bad. They're awful!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[powderjunkie]

There, back on track. Talk about riveting stuff!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Yup, I said they're not that bad. They're awful!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You totally trolled powderjunkie right there. He was about to lose his ####.

[CliffFletcher]

Elections typically aren’t about a groundswell of popularity for a party or leader. They’re a referendum on the governing party. If the voting population is happy with the incumbents, they’re voted back in; if they’re unhappy, they turf the incumbents. The policies of the opposition don’t play much of a role.

When the NDP won the Alberta election in 2015, it wasn’t because Albertans fell in love with the NDP and their platform. It was because voters were sick of the PCs. It will be the same if the CPC win the next federal election.

What federal NDP supporters should be asking themselves is why the collapse of the Liberals has seen all that support shift to the CPC, and not to the NDP. Why haven’t the NDP capitalized on the unpopularity of the Liberals?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Elections typically aren’t about a groundswell of popularity for a party or leader. They’re a referendum on the governing party. If the voting population is happy with the incumbents, they’re voted back in; if they’re unhappy, they turf the incumbents. The policies of the opposition don’t play much of a role.

When the NDP won the Alberta election in 2015, it wasn’t because Albertans fell in love with the NDP or their platform. It was because voters were sick of the PCs. It will be the same if the CPC win the next federal election.

What federal NDP supporters should be asking themselves is why the collapse of the Liberals has seen all that support shift to the CPC, and not to the NDP. Why haven’t the NDP capitalized on the unpopularity of the Liberals?

It’s not a particularly difficult question. NDP linked up with the Liberals to deliver on some issues important to the NDP which was always going to be a risk/reward scenario. And, in this one, they didn’t get enough to kept the Liberals afloat too much, so they’re taking the same criticism without the gains that make it worth it.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Hi Firebot, can you get me excited for a Pierre Poilievre populist government on their own merit, and without referring to Trudeau or the Liberals?

I asked this a couple of weeks ago and still haven't received a response from any of the party faithful yet.

Why do you need to be excited for a Poilievre government? You don't need to vote for them if you don't want to and there's many legitimate reasons why someone wouldn't.

No one here is going to convince you if you have predetermined ideas.

I am not excited about a Poilievre government, so why would I convince you to be excited for it?

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Those are two different conversations. Do you know how message boards work or do you need that explained to you like you’re five as well?

Ah yes the Kanye West strategy "WE NEED TO DISCUSS"

https://twitter.com/user/status/1433278510227881984

Show me where you guys started a discussion?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

There, back on track. Talk about riveting stuff!

Now go to the Alberta politics folder and do the same for people complaining about the UCP. Some posters make dozens of “UCP and Danielle Smith are bad” posts a month, every month, for years. As you say, riveting stuff. But par for the course in political threads.

[Ozy_Flame]

Alright, Firebot can't deliver, any other party faithfuls that can get me excited for an upcoming Pierre government?

I'd even be happy for someone to yell me why an NDP government is good for me if that was remotely possible!

[MrSector9]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Elections typically aren’t about a groundswell of popularity for a party or leader. They’re a referendum on the governing party. If the voting population is happy with the incumbents, they’re voted back in; if they’re unhappy, they turf the incumbents. The policies of the opposition don’t play much of a role.

When the NDP won the Alberta election in 2015, it wasn’t because Albertans fell in love with the NDP and their platform. It was because voters were sick of the PCs. It will be the same if the CPC win the next federal election.

What federal NDP supporters should be asking themselves is why the collapse of the Liberals has seen all that support shift to the CPC, and not to the NDP. Why haven’t the NDP capitalized on the unpopularity of the Liberals?

Because the NDP have done nothing right since Layton basically... this last run they might as well be the Liberal party anyway. The population are seeing what we are receiving from the NDP/Liberal coalition nowhere nears the amount of losses through having a system where there is zero opposition (that matters with votes) and that Singh has less of a backbone than Trudeau when it comes up to legitiamtly standing up for Canadians.

It is bad when you start to see the NDP constituents distance themselves from the federal party in order to try to remain popular in their local riding for a hope to be re-elected.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I don't actually think the Liberals are that bad...

Trudeau is pure crap and one of the top 3 worst PMs of all time!

But if PP becomes our PM he will be the worst PM of all time. Eff YOU Reform Party!

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Alright, Firebot can't deliver, any other party faithfuls that can get me excited for an upcoming Pierre government?

I'd even be happy for someone to yell me why an NDP government is good for me if that was remotely possible!

PP has promised a lot, does it get you excited? Do you believe him?

Some highlights.

Cutting income tax and eliminating carbon tax
Building homes - force municipalities to comply or else take away funding
Reducing federal budget/defunding govt programs/corruption
Fighting crime - "Jail not bail"
Increasing military to 2% of GDP

[Ozy_Flame]

There has to be more nuance around those 'highlights', For example, who's getting a tax cut? What economic science do they have that says eliminating the carbon tax is the better approach? What does reducing federal budget and government programs mean? What does 'jail not bail' mean?

A couple of these files the current government is already addressing (whether for better or for worse). And what about healthcare, climate change, affordable housing, cost of living and inflation?

It's not that I don't believe what he says (Conservatives are very good as wordsmithing statements to be non-committal and vague), it's that I don't see any discernable benefit without more detail.

And I personally believe everything - EVERYTHING - needs to be based on science. Pure, methodical, well-researched, peer-reviewed science. I would like to see that from both the Cons and the Libs. We need to have a database of all of their research they are using to create policy, and every policy passed in the House needs to be tied back to scientific data that is open-source where possible.

Personally I'd love any party to come out and say "real, tested, science leads the way in everything we do."

I'm looking forward to more details about PP's plan though, and can be properly vetted and critiqued to assure Canadians are in good, responsible hands.

[Locke]

I think regardless of who wins the next Election we're all screwed.

Trudeau is a corrupt idiot.
Poilievre is religious zealot.
Singh and May just seem like they dont want to be forced to get real jobs.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

PP has promised a lot, does it get you excited? Do you believe him?

Some highlights.

Cutting income tax and eliminating carbon tax
Building homes - force municipalities to comply or else take away funding
Reducing federal budget/defunding govt programs/corruption
Fighting crime - "Jail not bail"
Increasing military to 2% of GDP

As a centrist, i can see the bolded actually being done. the rest is either election posturing or the policies will not result in the desired outcome.

There is no way the Cons can cut taxes while preaching against the liberals spending and deficits. They will eliminate the carbon tax.

There is no way the Cons policies on housing will get the intended consequences. They are nonsense, and are, at best, burdening municipalities with more budget problems leading to increased property taxes. The policies that have tried to be implemented by cities to eliminate gate keepers have been resolutely rejected by their base (open zoning etc.)

They will certainly cut spending, which is definitely a good thing - depending on the departments they go after. They will do nothing about corruption. All parties are corrupt once in government. this is the way.

Fighting crime is needed. At least from a perception base. It's too big of a focus now to not attempt. The issue is the Supreme Court and its past treatment of tough-on-crime legislation. I also don't recall substantial evidence that tough on crime policies result in less crime.

We need to spend more on Defence spending. But, given all government actions since the Korean War, i will believe it when i see it. A Trump presidency will probably make this a bolded one.

for me, a vote for PP would entirely come down to spending and deficit control; but, they have to show me what they actually plan on cutting.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

PP has promised a lot, does it get you excited? Do you believe him?

Some highlights.

Cutting income tax and eliminating carbon tax
Building homes - force municipalities to comply or else take away funding
Reducing federal budget/defunding govt programs/corruption
Fighting crime - "Jail not bail"
Increasing military to 2% of GDP

The bolded isn't really accurate, he won't commit to it, he's stated that because he has no idea what the real state of finance is, so he said he can't commits to 2% because he doesn't know.


And I've said it before, the 2% is really meaningless, the Forces needs a huge capital investment just to get their readiness up to a respectable point.


The Libs and Conservatives have both literally let the Forces rot away to the point where we wouldn't be able to field more then probably 30% of our equipment, and we have a massive manpower shortage as it stands.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

PP has promised a lot, does it get you excited? Do you believe him?

Some highlights.

Cutting income tax and eliminating carbon tax
Building homes - force municipalities to comply or else take away funding
Reducing federal budget/defunding govt programs/corruption
Fighting crime - "Jail not bail"
Increasing military to 2% of GDP

The only one that gets me even close to excited would be less corruption.. but that's a promise every politician makes, and knowing the Reform party, its the one I trust the least to actually happen.

- Our services can't survive with less income tax, and cutting the carbon tax is stupid too. The whole point of the carbon tax is to make things more expensive to force the market to bring alternatives.

- Any plan that "forces" someone to do something "or else" isn't a good plan.

- Reducing the budget in conservative terms is dropping off services for people that need them and giving to those who don't. (See Alberta UCP)

- "Jail not bail" is a populist ideal of how a complex system should be working without looking at all of the nuances of it. I don't like that there are more crimes being committed by people on bail, but I have neither the expertise or the knowledge to judge the current system - so this plank is useless.

- Increase military to 2% would be nice, but ultimately how is he going to square that with less taxes and less government budget. I know, lets cut the CBC and replace it with jet fighters than do nothing because Russia just threatens nukes anyways.

So honestly, no, nothing about what PP says makes me excited to see him in government.