Should the Flames offer sheet Dylan Holloway?

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I would say offer sheets are just ineffective in general and that is why they are not used.

Ryan Kesler Sept 12, 2006 [11] 1 year, $1.9 million Vancouver Canucks Philadelphia Flyers Matched –
Thomas Vanek July 6, 2007 [35] 7 years, $50 million Buffalo Sabres Edmonton Oilers Matched –
Dustin Penner July 26, 2007 5 years, $21.5 million Anaheim Ducks Edmonton Oilers Not Matched 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks in 2008
David Backes July 1, 2008 3 years, $7.5 million St. Louis Blues Vancouver Canucks Matched –
Steve Bernier July 8, 2008 1 year, $2.5 million Vancouver Canucks St. Louis Blues Matched –
Niklas Hjalmarsson July 9, 2010 4 years, $14 million Chicago Blackhawks San Jose Sharks Matched –
Shea Weber July 18, 2012[36] 14 years, $110 million Nashville Predators Philadelphia Flyers Matched[37] –
Ryan O'Reilly February 28, 2013[38] 2 years, $10 million Colorado Avalanche Calgary Flames Matched –
Sebastian Aho July 1, 2019[39] 5 years, $42.27 million Carolina Hurricanes Montreal Canadiens Matched[40] –
Jesperi Kotkaniemi August 28, 2021 1 year, $6.1 million Montreal Canadiens Carolina Hurricanes Not matched[41] 1st and 3rd round picks in 2022

If you offer something even somewhat reasonable, the other team just matches.

So you have to offer a boat anchor contract plus give up compensation to do so.

That doesn't seem like an effective team building tool to me. In a league where cap efficiency is king, why would you use a tool to add a player that will be massively inefficient cap wise?

You especially don't want to offer a boat anchor contract to a guy who is 22 years old with 18 career points in 89 professional games.

Is this a serious post? The only argument the OP has made is "he could be better next year". Is that enough of a reason to blow cap and draft picks on a guy who to date has shown very little in his pro career thus far?

22 year olds aren't old but they aren't young. Holloway is basically at the end of his developmental runway and hes putting up 4L numbers on a good team.

Hard pass, no thanks.

[FireGilbert]

There must be an unwritten offer sheet rule amongst GMs because you'd think they would be used more often to exploit teams in cap trouble.

That said the Flames are still in the acquire assets stage of their rebuild. Need to wait a couple years to move onto the trade picks for undervalued players phase like Florida trading for Bennett or making a RFA move.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

There must be an unwritten offer sheet rule amongst GMs because you'd think they would be used more often to exploit teams in cap trouble.

I think it simply comes down to most players that are worth offer sheeting will be signed or the offer sheet will be matched.
Most GMs aren’t tripping over themselves to offer sheet guys like Broberg and Holloway because most teams already have players like them or they can get them cheaper. It would have been like offersheeting Valimaki to a 3 -4.5 million dollar contract.

[Sled]

Listen Dylan we get it and are sympathetic that you want out of Edmonton but not cool hacking Phaneuf_Phan's account to get some fan interest in having you get to the sunny side of Alberta.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

There must be an unwritten offer sheet rule amongst GMs because you'd think they would be used more often to exploit teams in cap trouble.

That said the Flames are still in the acquire assets stage of their rebuild. Need to wait a couple years to move onto the trade picks for undervalued players phase like Florida trading for Bennett or making a RFA move.

I think Oil Stain explained it best. In order for an offer sheet to "succeed", the team must offer a contract that is unreasonably above market and then also pay draft pick compensation for the privilege of doing so. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I think Oil Stain explained it best. In order for an offer sheet to "succeed", the team must offer a contract that is unreasonably above market and then also pay draft pick compensation for the privilege of doing so. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

You could offer a contract below market value in certain circumstances and probably get them to sign. When a team is already over the cap and they have two former first round picks available you could throw them the Barrett Hayton contract (he of 0.3 PPG last year) of around 2.65 million a year or something similar and pick up a guy who is two years younger and averaged 0.28 PPG in the playoffs. You could probably offer that player 300K a year less than Hayton and possibly get him.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

You could offer a contract below market value in certain circumstances and probably get them to sign. When a team is already over the cap and they have two former first round picks available you could throw them the Barrett Hayton contract (he of 0.3 PPG last year) of around 2.65 million a year or something similar and pick up a guy who is two years younger and averaged 0.28 PPG in the playoffs. You could probably offer that player 300K a year less than Hayton and possibly get him.

I don't know... I think its incredibly unlikely that a team would not do anything necessary (including spending an asset to get rid of another contract, if necessary) to match a below market or market value contract for a young and good RFA player. It seems like it would take some very extraordinary circumstances for an offer sheet to ever really work for the offering team.

[Jason14h]

Why would the player sign a below market offer ???

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Why would the player sign a below market offer ???

Why would you have to pay above market? If the team the guy plays for can only afford 2 million but the player is a 3 million dollar player you might be able to get them for 2.7 million. The player ends up having to sign below market in that scenario if nobody gives him an offer sheet.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Why would you have to pay above market?

Because if you offer market rate, his current team will just match. If you offer less, the player won't even sign.

It's not like these players are just sitting on the shelf at Walmart and have to go with the first shopper who pays the displayed price.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Because if you offer market rate, his current team will just match. If you offer less, the player won't even sign.

It's not like these players are just sitting on the shelf at Walmart and have to go with the first shopper who pays the displayed price.

But what if the current team cannot pay market rate, how do they match market rate then?

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Why would the player sign a below market offer ???

So there’s a chance he is no longer property of the Oilers.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

But what if the current team cannot pay market rate, how do they match market rate then?

They match it anyway and trade somebody to be cap compliant.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

They match it anyway and trade somebody to be cap compliant.

Ok let’s use the Oilers as an example.

So you think if somebody offers Holloway 2.3 million and then a different team offers Broberg 2.3 million bucks that the Oilers sign both players and then find a way to move 5 million bucks to accommodate those signings and then roll with a 22 man roster this year with no cap space for trades at the deadline and then have to qualify both those players at that rate next year at those rates? Let’s assume they trade Kane to make the cap work this year and have to throw in a 3rd round pick to make that happen.

Assuming a 93 million dollar cap next year the Oilers the Oilers would have 63 million locked into 8 forwards, 5 dmen and 2 goalies. They would need to sign a minimum of 5 forwards and 2 dmen just to have a 20 man roster. They would have about 30 million to sign

Draisaitl (14.5 million)
Bouchard (10 million)

And then I guess 5.5 million for 4 forwards and a dman, so basically league minimum type stuff. That would give them 22 players again and no cap space to make trades at the 2026 deadline either.

It seems unlikely that they would blow up the following year to sign both players in that scenario for this year. But maybe you are correct.

[Jay Random]

If those really are the market rates for those two players, they can match the offer sheets and then trade the players.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If those really are the market rates for those two players, they can match the offer sheets and then trade the players.

Trade which players? Holloway and Broberg would have rock solid no trade clauses in that scenario.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Trade which players? Holloway and Broberg would have rock solid no trade clauses in that scenario.

They’re not eligible for NTCs. You can only get those for UFA years.

[sch19lks]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Not that I'm very impressed with the player anyway, but after reading TheIronMaiden's post about him in the E=NG thread, I'd definitely say no!

I went digging and couldn’t find this post. What’s the story here?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by sch19lks

I went digging and couldn’t find this post. What’s the story here?

Probably this post:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...postcount=4218

[sch19lks]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Probably this post:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...postcount=4218

Thanks!