American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I don't know how pointing out how our system is flawed is an excuse for how their system is flawed.

It is curious that you don’t see the same people complaining about both outcomes. People only seem to be critical of electoral systems when their team loses.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It is curious that you don’t see the same people complaining about both outcomes. People only seem to be critical of electoral systems when their team loses.

“When their team loses”

Yeah, nothing makes that case better than centre-left posters complaining about the US electoral system while the Dems are in power in a country they don’t live in and can’t vote in.

Go team!

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's just how it goes. What about both Scheer and O'Toole having about 200,000 more popular votes than Trudeau in their respective elections?

I don't even know that their statement was correct anyway. The electoral college isn't necessarily bad for the Democrats. Trump managed to flip the rust belt and changed the equation a bit in 2016. In 2020, it went a bit more normal and makes for a harder map for the Republicans to win.

If Biden wins the popular vote, he probably wins. I don't think he's on a trajectory to even come close to winning the popular vote though.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I don't even know that their statement was correct anyway. The electoral college isn't necessarily bad for the Democrats. Trump managed to flip the rust belt and changed the equation a bit in 2016. In 2020, it went a bit more normal and makes for a harder map for the Republicans to win.

If Biden wins the popular vote, he probably wins. I don't think he's on a trajectory to even come close to winning the popular vote though.

Dems have won the popular vote the last 4 elections, and I have no doubt that they'll win it again. It'll all come down to the electoral college as usual, and then Florida will probably ruin it for everyone like they always do.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by direwolf

Dems have won the popular vote the last 4 elections, and I have no doubt that they'll win it again. It'll all come down to the electoral college as usual, and then Florida will probably ruin it for everyone like they always do.

And the Dems won the EC handedly in 3 of them. In 2004, Bush had a pretty significant lead in popular vote, but barely won the EC.

I don't see any reason to think Biden will win the popular vote this year. Inflation was already a big hill to overcome. Now, that it is impossible to ignore that he is a weekend at bernies president, that's going to cost him a few million votes.

He's way down in the polls compared to last year.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by direwolf

Dems have won the popular vote the last 4 elections, and I have no doubt that they'll win it again. It'll all come down to the electoral college as usual, and then Florida will probably ruin it for everyone like they always do.

They also consistently led in the polls in each of those 4 elections though. Whereas in this election, Biden hasn’t led in aggregate polling in the last 9-10 months. His approval rating just keeps dropping and he’s seemingly unable to mount a robust campaign because his appearances have to be so curated, so it’s going to be tough to turn the tide.

[Fuzz]

Spoiler!

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeople...ropaganda_bot/

Chat bot election meddling on Xitter. Gotta giggle at how easily it is exposed.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by New York Times

By George Clooney



Mr. Clooney is an actor, director and film producer.

I’m a lifelong Democrat; I make no apologies for that. I’m proud of what my party represents and what it stands for. As part of my participation in the democratic process and in support of my chosen candidate, I have led some of the biggest fund-raisers in my party’s history. Barack Obama in 2012. Hillary Clinton in 2016. Joe Biden in 2020. Last month I co-hosted the single largest fund-raiser supporting any Democratic candidate ever, for President Biden’s re-election. I say all of this only to express how much I believe in this process and how profound I think this moment is.

I love Joe Biden. As a senator. As a vice president and as president. I consider him a friend, and I believe in him. Believe in his character. Believe in his morals. In the last four years, he’s won many of the battles he’s faced.

But the one battle he cannot win is the fight against time. None of us can. It’s devastating to say it, but the Joe Biden I was with three weeks ago at the fund-raiser was not the Joe “big F-ing deal” Biden of 2010. He wasn’t even the Joe Biden of 2020. He was the same man we all witnessed at the debate.


Was he tired? Yes. A cold? Maybe. But our party leaders need to stop telling us that 51 million people didn’t see what we just saw. We’re all so terrified by the prospect of a second Trump term that we’ve opted to ignore every warning sign. The George Stephanopoulos interview only reinforced what we saw the week before. As Democrats, we collectively hold our breath or turn down the volume whenever we see the president, who we respect, walk off Air Force One or walk back to a mic to answer an unscripted question.


Is it fair to point these things out? It has to be. This is about age. Nothing more. But also nothing that can be reversed. We are not going to win in November with this president. On top of that, we won’t win the House, and we’re going to lose the Senate. This isn’t only my opinion; this is the opinion of every senator and congress member and governor that I’ve spoken with in private. Every single one, irrespective of what he or she is saying publicly.

We love to talk about how the Republican Party has ceded all power, and all of the traits that made it so formidable with Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, to a single person who seeks to hold on to the presidency, and yet most of our members of Congress are opting to wait and see if the dam breaks. But the dam has broken. We can put our heads in the sand and pray for a miracle in November, or we can speak the truth.

It is disingenuous, at best, to argue that Democrats have already spoken with their vote and therefore the nomination is settled and done, when we just received new and upsetting information. We all think Republicans should abandon their nominee now that he’s been convicted of 34 felonies. That’s new and upsetting information as well. Top Democrats — Chuck Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries, Nancy Pelosi — and senators, representatives and other candidates who face losing in November need to ask this president to voluntarily step aside.

All of the scary stories that we’re being told about what would happen next are simply not true. In all likelihood, the money in the Biden-Harris coffers could go to help elect the presidential ticket and other Democrats. The new nominee wouldn’t be left off ballots in Ohio. We Democrats have a very exciting bench. We don’t anoint leaders or fall sway to a cult of personality; we vote for a president. We can easily foresee a group of several strong Democrats stepping forward to stand and tell us why they’re best qualified to lead this country and take on some of the deeply concerning trends we’re seeing from the revenge tour that Donald Trump calls a presidential campaign.

Let’s hear from Wes Moore and Kamala Harris and Gretchen Whitmer and Gavin Newsom and Andy Beshear and J.B. Pritzker and others. Let’s agree that the candidates not attack one another but, in the short time we have, focus on what will make this country soar. Then we could go into the Democratic convention next month and figure it out.


Would it be messy? Yes. Democracy is messy. But would it enliven our party and wake up voters who, long before the June debate, had already checked out? It sure would. The short ramp to Election Day would be a benefit for us, not a danger. It would give us the chance to showcase the future without so much opposition research and negative campaigning that comes with these ridiculously long and expensive election seasons. This can be an exciting time for democracy, as we’ve just seen with the 200 or so French candidates who stepped aside and put their personal ambitions on hold to save their democracy from the far right.

Joe Biden is a hero; he saved democracy in 2020. We need him to do it again in 2024.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/10/o...c-nominee.html

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It is curious that you don’t see the same people complaining about both outcomes. People only seem to be critical of electoral systems when their team loses.

I don't know how true that it. I think people who are truly critical of the system, be it FPTP or the Electoral College, are critical regardless of who wins.

But I also don't think there has ever been a Democrat win with less of a popular vote so its hard to say people only complain when there team loses when only one team has ever lost this way.

[ResAlien]

The think pieces about how Biden’s Mondale like drubbing was actually the fault of everyone who criticized him are gonna be so good.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

The think pieces about how Biden’s Mondale like drubbing was actually the fault of everyone who criticized him are gonna be so good.

Who hasn't criticized him at this point though? Nearly every sane American agrees about the point in the Clooney letter.

People are speaking out because there is still time to do something. If Biden goes forward with such a large critical mass of people saying he should drop out, then that's on him and his circle.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I don't know how true that it. I think people who are truly critical of the system, be it FPTP or the Electoral College, are critical regardless of who wins.

But I also don't think there has ever been a Democrat win with less of a popular vote so its hard to say people only complain when there team loses when only one team has ever lost this way.

Bill Clinton on both occasions. And before that JFK and Jimmy Carter only had 50.08% of the popular vote (according to Wikipedia.)

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by you&me

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/10/o...c-nominee.html

"It’s devastating to say it, but the Joe Biden I was with three weeks ago at the fund-raiser was not the Joe “big F-ing deal” Biden of 2010"

Gee, thanks tips. It's been abundantly clear for at least a few years now that his cognitive level has been severely impacted.

There's big push now to jettison Biden, and it's from the fallout of the debate. Where most people who normally wouldn't follow politics like a junky tuned in. Social media explodes, can't control the narrative, aaaaand time to give the old man the boot.

Pathetic.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Bill Clinton on both occasions. And before that JFK and Jimmy Carter only had 50.08% of the popular vote (according to Wikipedia.)

My point wasn't that they had less than 50% of the vote, its that they have never had a President win with less % of the popular vote than the Republican candidate.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by belsarius

My point wasn't that they had less than 50% of the vote, its that they have never had a President win with less % of the popular vote than the Republican candidate.

And it's only happened twice for the Republicans with George W . in his first term and Trump. So it's not like it is a common occurrence which benefits one party consistently.

[curves2000]

It's kinda shocking to see some of the commentary and the outright assault on Biden's fitness level from people who voted for him and help raise money. I have watched the last few press conferences form the White House and the press secretary really can't seem to get their story actually straight. It's very strange overall.

Just recently actor George Clooney has published a letter asking for Biden to step down and used a recent Hollywood fundraiser as an example. He helped raise $30 million in a night but his interactions with Biden that evening mirrored that of the debate night, in essence gone mentally. Not fit for office if we are being 100% honest.

I know there has been some BS flowing from the conservative side of the isle with talk about his mental capacity, physical capacity, his stumbles and falls etc. Doctored videos showing what they want to show and more. What I want to know is, why has the White House and the Democrats been hiding this level of decline to the point of literally almost no return? It's been apparent for a while and evident with how well Biden has been handled during his 3+ years in office.

Some of this used to be a right wing conspiracy we were told, Biden was 100% fit for office and had a level of engagement that was unmatched. Now we are being told that campaign and most work related items are going to be stopped at 8 pm for rest, recovery and more. Additional time will be set aside for a nap during the day, which to be perfectly honest, most people could benefit from.

Anybody else get the belief that the level of lying and lack of accountability from the White House, MSM and the Democratic party is getting into dangerous territory?

Forget what Trump says or does, we know this 100%. I can just imagine what behind the scenes is looking like. This coming from the worlds superpower! It's actually quite funny to think about it if it wasn't so sad overall.

[iggy_oi]

The real question here is why are the people who are always up in arms about supposed “cancel culture” not upset about people trying to force Biden to lose his job over the nonsensical remarks he’s made? Bunch of hypocrites I tell ya.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by curves2000

It's kinda shocking to see some of the commentary and the outright assault on Biden's fitness level from people who voted for him and help raise money. I have watched the last few press conferences form the White House and the press secretary really can't seem to get their story actually straight. It's very strange overall.

Just recently actor George Clooney has published a letter asking for Biden to step down and used a recent Hollywood fundraiser as an example. He helped raise $30 million in a night but his interactions with Biden that evening mirrored that of the debate night, in essence gone mentally. Not fit for office if we are being 100% honest.

I know there has been some BS flowing from the conservative side of the isle with talk about his mental capacity, physical capacity, his stumbles and falls etc. Doctored videos showing what they want to show and more. What I want to know is, why has the White House and the Democrats been hiding this level of decline to the point of literally almost no return? It's been apparent for a while and evident with how well Biden has been handled during his 3+ years in office.

Some of this used to be a right wing conspiracy we were told, Biden was 100% fit for office and had a level of engagement that was unmatched. Now we are being told that campaign and most work related items are going to be stopped at 8 pm for rest, recovery and more. Additional time will be set aside for a nap during the day, which to be perfectly honest, most people could benefit from.

Anybody else get the belief that the level of lying and lack of accountability from the White House, MSM and the Democratic party is getting into dangerous territory?

Forget what Trump says or does, we know this 100%. I can just imagine what behind the scenes is looking like. This coming from the worlds superpower! It's actually quite funny to think about it if it wasn't so sad overall.

MAGA radar going off the charts here, lol.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

The real question here is why are the people who are always up in arms about supposed “cancel culture” not upset about people trying to force Biden to lose his job over the nonsensical remarks he’s made? Bunch of hypocrites I tell ya.

Not sure I get the reference specifically. Let's take the private sector and use Jamie Dimon from JP Morgan as an example. A lot of people have thought that that he would make an excellent President and have pushed for him to run previously. A strong business and economic mind but a compassionate and forward thinking social values individual. He would be the classic middle of the road candidate.

Running the worlds largest and important financial institution, being able to execute deals and assist in times of crisis (2008,2020 etc) and having the ability to navigate the level of complexity that he deals with on a daily basis is also impressive.

Getting rid of Jamie Dimon from JP Morgan over an offensive tweet, comment or minor transgression is one thing. Getting rid of him because he physically and mentally is struggling in his role as chairman and CEO and can't do the job is another. The success and failure of the global financial system depends on him being 100% on.

He had a massive health scare in 2020 and required cardiac surgery. The level of intense focus on his health to ensure a complete recovery was paramount to the company and in a lot of ways, to the world. There was concern and speculation on what may happen if he doesn't recover and can't do the job. Thankfully JP Morgan has a strong succession plan in place and is prepared for his departure.

Canceling him for something small is weird. Cancelation as a result of health and medical concerns is 100% valid given the stakes.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by greyshep

MAGA radar going off the charts here, lol.

No no no. Not one bit. If you follow my posting, you would know that I don't want Trump to win. In order to be MAGA, you gotta have to vote for the guy.

If you have seen any of the recent updates from the White House press secretary, you would know that this is a really weird situation.

They can't get their story straight in a very weird way which is why this so called "bad night due to a cold" continues now. We are being led to believe that one of America's top neurological Dr has visited the White House and spoken with Biden's personal Dr for reasons that are limited to................ the 1000 military personal that are onsite and have access to the White House medical department. Not the commander in chief who everybody can see is a struggling 81 year old.