According to Coleman, Tkachuk wanted to stay

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I think Conroy was placed in a similar situation and has done miles better.

Uh...yes and no?

I think we know that Conroy is here to 'Tear Down the House that Brad Built.'

But he isn't a sacrificial lamb like Feaster. He is someone who has been honing his craft for nearly a decade and who has lots and lots of 'Fan Capital.'

We as fans are going to give Conroy a lot of rope and he's been groomed for the role.

Feaster was air-dropped in to do a dirty job.

Conroy knew the Gig. He knew he was going to have to tear this team down to the studs, and he's done it. And in my opinion I think he's done it rather well.

Now. What can he build in it's place?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Ryan O’Rielly too.

Make no mistake, Feaster was brought here to win/stay competitive. Same as every other GM.

Conroy might be the only one who has been given the grace to take an intentional step backwards and that likely has to do with trying to build a competitive team for the new building. Once the Flames are in there, I’ll bet the exact same ‘win now’ moves will be made. If Conroy isn’t able to turn these next three years into a young core ready to compete, ready yourself for the same or similar results we saw under Treliving.

I would like to think we are in a bit better shape, and hopefully we've learned a thing or two. I'm not so sure that Conroy will have the same approach we saw under Brad.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I would like to think we are in a bit better shape, and hopefully we've learned a thing or two. I'm not so sure that Conroy will have the same approach we saw under Brad.

I don’t necessarily think Conroy will have that view either but I strongly suspect that once the Flames are in their new building, ownership will have their foot firmly in the gas pedal and if certain young players aren’t ready or won’t ever be ready, that won’t change ownerships view that it’s playoffs or bust. And that’s how you end up making questionable FA signings or leveraging draft capital for current players, same as Treliving did.


….i agree that Conroybis in a better spot and has done well to date but, needless to say, we’ve just finished the first chapter. A lot of people who are highly critical of Treliving now were likely pumped about the Glencross, Russel, Hudker, Bartschi trades.

Conroy is going to have to make hay over the next three years.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I don’t necessarily think Conroy will have that view either but I strongly suspect that once the Flames are in their new building, ownership will have their foot firmly in the gas pedal and if certain young players aren’t ready or won’t ever be ready, that won’t change ownerships view that it’s playoffs or bust. And that’s how you end up making questionable FA signings or leveraging draft capital for current players, same as Treliving did.

I am hoping ownership learned a thing or two , ...didn't Bean retire?!! I agree Conroy seems to have the rare opportunity to move things backwards. If he can keep on hitting on draft capital, maybe even grab a couple more 1st s over the next year or two we might have enough bullets in the chamber.

We've still got room to acquire more picks; One good thing in Conroy's favor is that he has set the bar high, and has had some success. This is really important as it allows him to keep reaching.

[Paulie Walnuts]

This is a Canadian team any signs of progress will immediately have the owners green lighting trades.

For a lot of us 2004 was one of the best memories being a Flames fan. It also put unrealistic expectations on the team going forward. It wasn’t a Amonte and McCarty away from winning. The team needed more home grown talent and all we had was Dion. Sutter tried to build a flawed team, and Iggy and Kipper kept dragging them into the playoffs. Drafting Chucko instead of Zajac didn’t help things either.

2015 was a surprise again and another great memory. But once again a playoff appearance gave the impression to owners the team was ready. It still needed more building.

Let’s hope we don’t have a surprise playoff appearance otherwise this could be a disaster lol.

I do think we need to accept that once the young core is built they will go for it. Every Canadian team does. It’s not a Calgary thing. The big change is the burn it down rebuild, a lot of people said it wouldn’t happen but it is. It’s refreshing and much needed. I think we need to give credit to Conroy for having his vision accepted by owners to do this. I think the one big difference is between and the others is he’s not telling them what they want to hear to keep his job, he’s telling them what they need to hear to make is a successful team.

Sutter, Feaster and Treliving all sold the vision of we can compete now.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I am hoping ownership learned a thing or two , ...didn't Bean retire?!! I agree Conroy seems to have the rare opportunity to move things backwards. If he can keep on hitting on draft capital, maybe even grab a couple more 1st s over the next year or two we might have enough bullets in the chamber.

We've still got room to acquire more picks; One good thing in Conroy's favor is that he has set the bar high, and has had some success. This is really important as it allows him to keep reaching.

Perhaps, but I think that’s wishful thinking.

I’m not sure how much influence Bean had. Since the 04 lockout we’ve seen this organization take the chance to rebuild twice. Both times it came when it was forced upon by players refusing to resign. Namely Iginla, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Hanifin etc. ultimately, yes, the GM has influence on when that happens but it was inevitable one way or the other. All these people who are all riled up because Tkachuk is back in town like to think had Treliving been ‘smarter’ and resigned Tkachuk to a 6 ,7,8 year extension, Tkachuk would have been happy, willing to stay and both player and team happily ever after.

I don’t think that’s very likely. Tkachuk played the system to his advantage and would have in any event. I think he always had it in his mind that he was going to end up south of the boarder in one of 4 or 5 locations.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

This is a Canadian team any signs of progress will immediately have the owners green lighting trades.

For a lot of us 2004 was one of the best memories being a Flames fan. It also put unrealistic expectations on the team going forward. It wasn’t a Amonte and McCarty away from winning. The team needed more home grown talent and all we had was Dion. Sutter tried to build a flawed team, and Iggy and Kipper kept dragging them into the playoffs. Drafting Chucko instead of Zajac didn’t help things either.

2015 was a surprise again and another great memory. But once again a playoff appearance gave the impression to owners the team was ready. It still needed more building.

Let’s hope we don’t have a surprise playoff appearance otherwise this could be a disaster lol.

I do think we need to accept that once the young core is built they will go for it. Every Canadian team does. It’s not a Calgary thing. The big change is the burn it down rebuild, a lot of people said it wouldn’t happen but it is. It’s refreshing and much needed. I think we need to give credit to Conroy for having his vision accepted by owners to do this. I think the one big difference is between and the others is he’s not telling them what they want to hear to keep his job, he’s telling them what they need to hear to make is a successful team.

Sutter, Feaster and Treliving all sold the vision of we can compete now.

I don’t think there was much of an option. Conroy deserves credit for the execution of the year down but that was going to happen regardless.

Between 5 of 7 UFA’s leaving/unwilling to sign and the new arena, it has been an easy sell, relatively, to rebuild now. Add Mangiapane to that list too now, although he didn’t indicate he wasn’t going to resign I suspect both sides knew he was moving on.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I don’t think there was much of an option. Conroy deserves credit for the execution of the year down but that was going to happen regardless.

Between 5 of 7 UFA’s leaving/unwilling to sign and the new arena, it has been an easy sell, relatively, to rebuild now. Add Mangiapane to that list too now, although he didn’t indicate he wasn’t going to resign I suspect both sides knew he was moving on.

He could have waited on Mangipane but he shipped him away for a pick. He traded our starting goalie for a pick and bottom pairing D man.

He could have signed the free agents but he didn’t offer what they wanted and stuck to his number.

He also only tried to sign a few of them and because of that 2 of them asked to be traded.

He may not say it, but I think this the approach he wanted all along. I think he has a vision of the type of team and player he wants. All the talk about the skill level being at a level not seen before at development camp leads me to believe he is going to build what he said he wants a fast and skilled team.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

He could have waited on Mangipane but he shipped him away for a pick. He traded our starting goalie for a pick and bottom pairing D man.

He could have signed the free agents but he didn’t offer what they wanted and stuck to his number.

He also only tried to sign a few of them and because of that 2 of them asked to be traded.

He may not say it, but I think this the approach he wanted all along. I think he has a vision of the type of team and player he wants. All the talk about the skill level being at a level not seen before at development camp leads me to believe he is going to build what he said he wants a fast and skilled team.

Agreed. Conroy deserves credit for the execution of the tear down to date. No argument here. Could have done several things differently but at the end of the day, probably splitting hairs.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Perhaps, but I think that’s wishful thinking.

I’m not sure how much influence Bean had. Since the 04 lockout we’ve seen this organization take the chance to rebuild twice. Both times it came when it was forced upon by players refusing to resign. Namely Iginla, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Hanifin etc. ultimately, yes, the GM has influence on when that happens but it was inevitable one way or the other. All these people who are all riled up because Tkachuk is back in town like to think had Treliving been ‘smarter’ and resigned Tkachuk to a 6 ,7,8 year extension, Tkachuk would have been happy, willing to stay and both player and team happily ever after.

I don’t think that’s very likely. Tkachuk played the system to his advantage and would have in any event. I think he always had it in his mind that he was going to end up south of the boarder in one of 4 or 5 locations.

I was joking about Bean, as he often gets thrown in the middle, but we don't really have access to what goes on.

Apparently Coleman said that Matthew wanted to stay, and then added they "Matthew and Johnny and him" were friends. If I recall he felt that if Johnny stayed Matthew probably would have stayed. Were there mistakes made sure, but we could argue that that core wasn't strong enough to take us where we needed to go, it may be all for the best. The best thing would be to hear it from Tkachuk; Maybe someone will ask him, or he will clarify what his intentions were. Even if Matthew had intentions to head South, he appears to have firmly embraced the city and enjoyed being a Calgary Flame. I think Johnny did too. As hard as it is for us fans to accept, the reality is the Flames needed a do over. Too many guys didn't want to be here for different reasons. Conroy from his interviews is focused and vocal about guys that want to be here. Conroy said, about signing "Sharangovich" "he wants to be here".

There are always going to be fans that feel that Brad didn't handle the situation well enough regarding Tkachuk and Johnny, and that is okay, it doesn't mean they're right it just means that that's how they feel.

The GM, is often there to take the blame while applying the current owners mandate.

Brad and Conroy from all indications are going to be a little bit different, Brad talked a lot about baking guys on the farm, Conroy talks a lot about letting the guys play and use their skills. This was evident during a recent interview from Conroy after watching the draft picks. The interviewer appears to ask about tempering expectations, but Conroy cautioned the interviewer about not playing too safe but letting the guys with skill play, he mentioned guys at the scrimmages were doing plays on an elite level that an untrained eye wouldn't see. Brad and Conroy, have talked about using veterans to help assist young players transition but there seems to be a bit a slight difference in their approach. So if it could be the mandate from the owners but right now Conroy seems to have the leeway to let these guys get out and make some plays.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I was joking about Bean, as he often gets thrown in the middle, but we don't really have access to what goes on.

Apparently Coleman said that Matthew wanted to stay, and then added they "Matthew and Johnny and him" were friends. If I recall he felt that if Johnny stayed Matthew probably would have stayed. Were there mistakes made sure, but we could argue that that core wasn't strong enough to take us where we needed to go, it may be all for the best. The best thing would be to hear it from Tkachuk; Maybe someone will ask him, or he will clarify what his intentions were. Even if Matthew had intentions to head South, he appears to have firmly embraced the city and enjoyed being a Calgary Flame. I think Johnny did too. As hard as it is for us fans to accept, the reality is the Flames needed a do over. Too many guys didn't want to be here for different reasons. Conroy from his interviews is focused and vocal about guys that want to be here. Conroy said, about signing "Sharangovich" "he wants to be here".

There are always going to be fans that feel that Brad didn't handle the situation well enough regarding Tkachuk and Johnny, and that is okay, it doesn't mean they're right it just means that that's how they feel.

The GM, is often there to take the blame while applying the current owners mandate.

Brad and Conroy from all indications are going to be a little bit different, Brad talked a lot about baking guys on the farm, Conroy talks a lot about letting the guys play and use their skills. This was evident during a recent interview from Conroy after watching the draft picks. The interviewer appears to ask about tempering expectations, but Conroy cautioned the interviewer about not playing too safe but letting the guys with skill play, he mentioned guys at the scrimmages were doing plays on an elite level that an untrained eye wouldn't see. Brad and Conroy, have talked about using veterans to help assist young players transition but there seems to be a bit a slight difference in their approach. So if it could be the mandate from the owners but right now Conroy seems to have the leeway to let these guys get out and make some plays.

I don’t know if Johnny embraced the city like Tkachuk did. You hear a lot about the community involvement with all those guys I’ve never heard a peep about Johnny.

Johnny also made the comment all he knows is he leaves in April and comes back later September.

That’s his right. I mean if I was a making that type of money I’d likely not be in Calgary all year long either.

Brian Burke said in his book being involved and giving back to the community was a requirement from his players. So I’m curious as to what he did.

Tkachuk is also a personality a city can get behind. His hate for Edmonton is beautiful and sincere n

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

He could have waited on Mangipane but he shipped him away for a pick. He traded our starting goalie for a pick and bottom pairing D man.

He could have signed the free agents but he didn’t offer what they wanted and stuck to his number.

He also only tried to sign a few of them and because of that 2 of them asked to be traded.

He may not say it, but I think this the approach he wanted all along. I think he has a vision of the type of team and player he wants. All the talk about the skill level being at a level not seen before at development camp leads me to believe he is going to build what he said he wants a fast and skilled team.

He wants players that want to do what they do best. No squeezing sticks, he wants guys with confidence and using thier abilities. This is more of a self empowerment model of management where the guys doing the jobs are given the tools to express themselves and reach a little higher within the framework.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I don’t know if Johnny embraced the city like Tkachuk did. You hear a lot about the community involvement with all those guys I’ve never heard a peep about Johnny.

Johnny also made the comment all he knows is he leaves in April and comes back later September.

That’s his right. I mean if I was a making that type of money I’d likely not be in Calgary all year long either.

Brian Burke said in his book being involved and giving back to the community was a requirement from his players. So I’m curious as to what he did.

Tkachuk is also a personality a city can get behind. His hate for Edmonton is beautiful and sincere n

Tkachuk has some leadership qualities and a strong personality. So far it is not hard to see Zayne Parekh might have a bit of that too. His open candid interviews reminiscent of Iggy, the way he carries himself and seems confident.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I was joking about Bean, as he often gets thrown in the middle, but we don't really have access to what goes on.

Apparently Coleman said that Matthew wanted to stay, and then added they "Matthew and Johnny and him" were friends. If I recall he felt that if Johnny stayed Matthew probably would have stayed. Were there mistakes made sure, but we could argue that that core wasn't strong enough to take us where we needed to go, it may be all for the best. The best thing would be to hear it from Tkachuk; Maybe someone will ask him, or he will clarify what his intentions were. Even if Matthew had intentions to head South, he appears to have firmly embraced the city and enjoyed being a Calgary Flame. I think Johnny did too. As hard as it is for us fans to accept, the reality is the Flames needed a do over. Too many guys didn't want to be here for different reasons. Conroy from his interviews is focused and vocal about guys that want to be here. Conroy said, about signing "Sharangovich" "he wants to be here".

There are always going to be fans that feel that Brad didn't handle the situation well enough regarding Tkachuk and Johnny, and that is okay, it doesn't mean they're right it just means that that's how they feel.

The GM, is often there to take the blame while applying the current owners mandate.

Brad and Conroy from all indications are going to be a little bit different, Brad talked a lot about baking guys on the farm, Conroy talks a lot about letting the guys play and use their skills. This was evident during a recent interview from Conroy after watching the draft picks. The interviewer appears to ask about tempering expectations, but Conroy cautioned the interviewer about not playing too safe but letting the guys with skill play, he mentioned guys at the scrimmages were doing plays on an elite level that an untrained eye wouldn't see. Brad and Conroy, have talked about using veterans to help assist young players transition but there seems to be a bit a slight difference in their approach. So if it could be the mandate from the owners but right now Conroy seems to have the leeway to let these guys get out and make some plays.

I listened to the Coleman interview and I don’t think he was talking about Tkachuk. I think he was talking about Gaudreau. It is a bit unclear because Coleman did not say ‘Tkachuk wanted to stay’ he said ‘he wanted to stay’ and it was while discussing both Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

I think this whole thread was taken out of context and many seemed to think it wasn’t Tkachuck who Coleman was referring to.

Who know if Tkachuck would have stayed if Gaudreau extended but I’m doubtful. I think it was Sec who had a pretty detailed account for what was going on between the org and Gkachuck the season prior to him leaving and it sure didn’t sound positive. He wasn’t happy about the dressing room (puck flip) and he wasn’t happy about Sutter deployment. I think Stir berg has also been pretty consistent in saying Tkachuk was likely looking to get out whether Gaudreau signed or not.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

He wants players that want to do what they do best. No squeezing sticks, he wants guys with confidence and using thier abilities. This is more of a self empowerment model of management where the guys doing the jobs are given the tools to express themselves and reach a little higher within the framework.

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Tkachuk has some leadership qualities and a strong personality. So far it is not hard to see Zayne Parekh might have a bit of that too. His open candid interviews reminiscent of Iggy, the way he carries himself and seems confident.

Iggy is the best but he also got down himself and lost confidence.

Conroy was around that.

Having players who have all world skill but also being confident not cocky that they do whatever is deadly.

Guys like Mackinnon, Crosby, Makar and hate to say it but McDavid they just know they are on another level and could do whatever they want when they want. They why they hardly go on those long scoreless droughts.

Confidence is such a huge thing.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I listened to the Coleman interview and I don’t think he was talking about Tkachuk. I think he was talking about Gaudreau. It is a bit unclear because Coleman did not say ‘Tkachuk wanted to stay’ he said ‘he wanted to stay’ and it was while discussing both Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

I think this whole thread was taken out of context and many seemed to think it wasn’t Tkachuck who Coleman was referring to.

Who know if Tkachuck would have stayed if Gaudreau extended but I’m doubtful. I think it was Sec who had a pretty detailed account for what was going on between the org and Gkachuck the season prior to him leaving and it sure didn’t sound positive. He wasn’t happy about the dressing room (puck flip) and he wasn’t happy about Sutter deployment. I think Stir berg has also been pretty consistent in saying Tkachuk was likely looking to get out whether Gaudreau signed or not.

Tkachuk says things. He knows how to play up to his audience.

I’ve said all along that him and Sutter was never going to work out. Maurice gave him his freedom in Florida. Listen to his interviews not a single time has he ever said anything about Sutter.

Personality clash and we lost the battle. You can blame either guy. They both have rings now.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I listened to the Coleman interview and I don’t think he was talking about Tkachuk. I think he was talking about Gaudreau. It is a bit unclear because Coleman did not say ‘Tkachuk wanted to stay’ he said ‘he wanted to stay’ and it was while discussing both Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

I think this whole thread was taken out of context and many seemed to think it wasn’t Tkachuck who Coleman was referring to.

Who know if Tkachuck would have stayed if Gaudreau extended but I’m doubtful. I think it was Sec who had a pretty detailed account for what was going on between the org and Gkachuck the season prior to him leaving and it sure didn’t sound positive. He wasn’t happy about the dressing room (puck flip) and he wasn’t happy about Sutter deployment. I think Stir berg has also been pretty consistent in saying Tkachuk was likely looking to get out whether Gaudreau signed or not.

That is definitely helpful information clear things up a bit. It did appear to be one season where Tkachuk seemed off, unhappy.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Tkachuk says things. He knows how to play up to his audience.

I’ve said all along that him and Sutter was never going to work out. Maurice gave him his freedom in Florida. Listen to his interviews not a single time has he ever said anything about Sutter.

Personality clash and we lost the battle. You can blame either guy. They both have rings now.

I don't think it was just Sutter I think there was more going on with Tkachuk prior to that, but I agree the personality clashes didn't help. It would be interesting to hear what Tkachuk has to say about his decision to leave at some point. We might not hear about it until he retires and writes a book!

Some of the problems really stemmed from a poor list of coaches. I believe we could have gone a lot further with the right coaches who more likely would have given Bennett a bit more rope too.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I don't think it was just Sutter I think there was more going on with Tkachuk prior to that, but I agree the personality clashes didn't help. It would be interesting to hear what Tkachuk has to say about his decision to leave at some point. We might not hear about it until he retires and writes a book!

Some of the problems really stemmed from a poor list of coaches. I believe we could have gone a lot further with the right coaches who more likely would have given Bennett a bit more rope too.

If Brad Treliving has taught us nothing else...its that he is a piss poor evaluator of Coaching talent.

I think we can all agree on that and that this shall bring us all together!

Now. Lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Locke

If Brad Treliving has taught us nothing else...its that he is a piss poor evaluator of Coaching talent.

I think we can all agree on that and that this shall bring us all together!

Now. Lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

It's hard not to be excited, and a little easier to move on. I think the key is to try not to be too mad about the things that have happened, good people don't always get the job done.

I'm not very good at singing so you can start, I don't mind jumping up and down!