2024 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[Samonadreau]

that was close. walk 3 straight in the 8th down by one...

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Stop putting in Pop.

Schneider is just hoping he eventually does something to say "I told you so".

[FireGilbert]

Well I guess the benefit of only having 3 base runners all game is you get the top of the order up in the 9th. Do something!

[browna]

Ho hum another night scoring 2 or less runs, another loss.
2 hits is pathetic.

[KelVarnsen]

Oh no. The Jays lost.

[flamingred89]

Woof.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

What would you do instead though? Signing lower end free agents on 1 year deals doesn't get you much in terms of prospect value in trades. If they sell at the deadline how much do you think they get for KK?

If you can sign a guy like Soto I think you do it. You won't get the #1 guy to come to Canada very often, so whenever you can I think you should. This year they signed IKF, Turner, and KK for $31 MM. I'd rather have Soto, and 2 internal choices even if they're only so-so (eg Soto takes KK spot in the OF, put Barger at 3B and DH Horowitz) instead of IKF/Turner/KK. Maybe $31MM isn't enough for Soto, but I bet it's close, and that lineup probably wins more often and is more exciting to watch.

Obviously being able to promote quality prospects is key to any success, but I don't think sucking to draft high is that big a requirement for MLB. Take the Orioles - sure, Adley was a #1 pick but Gunnar Henderson was the second rounder, which means every MLB team passed on him at least once. Or Elly De La Cruz and his sub-$100k signing bonus.

It's a very long winded answer I'll be attempting, but here goes. I'll focus more on the bats.

Players worthy of being on a championship roster:
1B) Vlad
SS) Bo

Questionable:
LF) Varsho

Replaceable:
3B) IKF
RF) Springer
CF) KK
C) Kirk/Janssen
DH) Turner

To be determined:
2B) Schneider

Outside chance of being difference makers:
- Horowitz
- Barger

Batting prospects:
- Martinez


The above is simply where I see guys. The replaceable guys have been complete disappointments. You could even lump in Varsho there to a large degree. They each have some level of redeeming qualities, but for the most part, are simply replaceable when you look at their full body of skills, especially at their production at the plate. Will any of those guys bring in a good prospect? Doubtful. Varsho might considering his defence.

Anyway, that leaves at least 5 of 9 positions where the guys occupying, are average MLB players at best (putting it politely as possible). So we know we have to replace those ones with upgrades. The easiest is to open the bank and sign free agents but we know that's not sustainable or has real life limitations as there's not unlimited money supply. So that leaves looking to the future. How do you get guys who are on the cusp of making it to MLB? You trade Vlad or Bo for a package. You may not get the exact equivalent of the Soto package, but you may get 3 guys who are solid prospects ready to challenge for spring training and making the 2025 roster. Add in your own draftees and you have your guys who may make it in 3-4 years.

This roster has both a quality and quantity issue. So again, to do it organically you have to continue hitting home runs through drafting. I acknowledge draft picks take 3-4 years to bring in, but if you deal Vlad or Bo you can bring in prospects drafted by other teams who can challenge very soon to come in a year from now. Vlad and Bo offer you the most value in getting solid prospects and some quantity. Next are probably the starting pitchers but who can return one, but not both (quality and quantity).

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by bluejays

It's a very long winded answer I'll be attempting, but here goes. I'll focus more on the bats.

Players worthy of being on a championship roster:
1B) Vlad
SS) Bo

Questionable:
LF) Varsho

Replaceable:
3B) IKF
RF) Springer
CF) KK
C) Kirk/Janssen
DH) Turner

To be determined:
2B) Schneider

Outside chance of being difference makers:
- Horowitz
- Barger

Batting prospects:
- Martinez


The above is simply where I see guys. The replaceable guys have been complete disappointments. You could even lump in Varsho there to a large degree. They each have some level of redeeming qualities, but for the most part, are simply replaceable when you look at their full body of skills, especially at their production at the plate. Will any of those guys bring in a good prospect? Doubtful. Varsho might considering his defence.

Anyway, that leaves at least 5 of 9 positions where the guys occupying, are average MLB players at best (putting it politely as possible). So we know we have to replace those ones with upgrades. The easiest is to open the bank and sign free agents but we know that's not sustainable or has real life limitations as there's not unlimited money supply. So that leaves looking to the future. How do you get guys who are on the cusp of making it to MLB? You trade Vlad or Bo for a package. You may not get the exact equivalent of the Soto package, but you may get 3 guys who are solid prospects ready to challenge for spring training and making the 2025 roster. Add in your own draftees and you have your guys who may make it in 3-4 years.

This roster has both a quality and quantity issue. So again, to do it organically you have to continue hitting home runs through drafting. I acknowledge draft picks take 3-4 years to bring in, but if you deal Vlad or Bo you can bring in prospects drafted by other teams who can challenge very soon to come in a year from now. Vlad and Bo offer you the most value in getting solid prospects and some quantity. Next are probably the starting pitchers but who can return one, but not both (quality and quantity).

I agree with pretty much all of that. Some bits around the edges I'd edit (eg I think Varsho could be on a championship team but only as the CF, not the LF).

I'm not even saying don't trade Vlad and Bo and try and get a haul. But Soto is young and could easily be a core piece of a good team in 3-4 years when the prospects you trade for are coming into MLB.

If they're going to spend on free agents I'd rather buy one or two stars than a quantity of lower end guys. No matter where you are in the competitive cycle I think that's the right choice. Maybe if you're starting a full-out rebuild you sign some reclamation projects and hope to cash them in for futures at the deadline, but I don't think that's likely to happen here.

[Jason14h]

Bo has been incredibly bad for almost a year now

He has the 9th worse OPS of a regular in baseball

[browna]

I think with the stadium renos, the failed Ohtani chase, the need to keep your highest paying customers happy, and with last years issues carrying through to this, there is an appetite to make a splash besides the expected managerial and maybe GM change this season or offseason.

I don't doubt that after Ohtani, Atkins wanted something more than he got, but was unable and or had unwilling targets to come here. Soto was a trade and Jays didn't have what was required to make that trade and that's not the situation this offseason, it's just back up the bank truck for him.

You sign a certified star in Soto, have him and Vlad be the 2025 -2028 versions of the bash brothers, both big-ish personalities, it checks the box on the business side to get fans excited...the excitement is gone ever since the Seattle playoff choke job almost 2 years ago and there are investments in the venue to pay off now too.

[Jason14h]

There’s zero chance Soto come to Toronto

[DoubleK]

What a waste of a quality start by Gasman.

Still haven't seen the replay, but from where we were sitting along 1st base he looked out. Was he off the bag at all? They didn't show a good replay at the stadium.

[Roof-Daddy]

Going to get a nice high pick in 2025.

Hopefully it isn't another Austin Martin.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Bo has been incredibly bad for almost a year now

He has the 9th worse OPS of a regular in baseball

I'm sure some nerd out there is micro analyzing everything wrong with Bo, but of all players I think he has the best chance of coming back to his norm. He's shown for years that he can adjust and simply get on base. He seems to be more cerebral than most. Perhaps he's in his own head at the moment, no clue, but with some time off in the off-season to settle down he can probably hit the reset button. He's adjusted throughout his young career so I'm truly not concerned yet. It is very odd how almost everyone on the team has faltered in the past couple seasons (even guys like him and Vlad). It should be a cause for concern but as fans all we can do is hope the right coaches are in place to right the ship.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I'm sure some nerd out there is micro analyzing everything wrong with Bo, but of all players I think he has the best chance of coming back to his norm.

He's shown for years that he can adjust and simply get on base. He seems to be more cerebral than most. Perhaps he's in his own head at the moment, no clue, but with some time off in the off-season to settle down he can probably hit the reset button.

He's adjusted throughout his young career so I'm truly not concerned yet. It is very odd how almost everyone on the team has faltered in the past couple seasons (even guys like him and Vlad). It should be a cause for concern but as fans all we can do is hope the right coaches are in place to right the ship.

Jays are in a bind, in a serious way

His struggles have latest way to long, for the Jays to trade the guy before the deadline, they just won't get the value back that they require

I can't see anyway either side will want to resign,

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by flambers

Jays are in a bind, in a serious way

His struggles have latest way to long, for the Jays to trade the guy before the deadline, they just won't get the value back that they require

I can't see anyway either side will want to resign,

Depends. Certainly if the Jays lowball him he'll have no incentive to sign. But if they make him a lucrative offer, he'd probably be willing to. As for if another organization would pay a lot for Vlad or Bo, I truly believe so. Being young and what both have shown, moreso Bo, I think he could get a real boatload of prospects. Not as nice as Soto but I think he's the best asset they have. To put it in perspective he hasn't been good this year which is 4 months of his career. He's been great the rest of his career, so why wouldn't teams line up? Especially given his position? I have little doubt he could bring a sweet package.

[flambers]

Not sure, Jays are very likely to head towards a retool or rebuild.

They will move players who are pending free agents this deadline....

Key is does Bo want to resign with a team that might be 3, 4 or 5 years away...

Not sure

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by flambers

Not sure, Jays are very likely to head towards a retool or rebuild.

They will move players who are pending free agents this deadline....

Key is does Bo want to resign with a team that might be 3, 4 or 5 years away...

Not sure

Oh I fully agree that they're not going to do the right thing and rebuild. They'll get rid of pending FAs, and perhaps deal a SP, but they will do their best to not deal those two (which I think is wrong not to explore). Anyway, I really think Vlad is putting pressure on them to resign him (which I think will get done). Bo I really have no idea. He doesn't have ties to the city naturally, and seems like a southern guy at heart. I think he's looking to cash in, so if the Jays are unwilling he'll likely walk.

[flambers]

Agreed, I can see Vlad signing with the Jays.

My best guess Bo will leave, correct move for the Jays is to trade the player

However, I am not sure they can get the value back...

Makes it a really difficult decision.

[KelVarnsen]

A lead!