Calgarypuck Prospect Ranking 2024 - Setting the List

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Disagree. Once a player has played more than 9 NHL games to me that guy is no longer a prospect.

Once they played more than nine games they're still a rookie, can be sent down and be considered a rookie the next year. Your take is just wrong

[Fire]

If you can win the Calder then you are a prospect.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Goaltenders are like dogs.

One goalie game is the equivalent of seven games for a skater.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I feel like Wolf and Coronato are still prospects. Both still played a lot of time in the AHL.

This will likely be the last year they’re both considered one.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I have an odd take, but hear me out.

Wolf is no longer a prospect. The Flames traded Markstrom ostensibly to make room for Wolf to at least share the net with Vladar. He'll at least be a backup this year, but more likely it will be 50/50. There's nobody else in the organization that is likely to make the team out of camp. He's graduated.

Coronato is far from guaranteed to make the team. He still has some physical and mental parts of his game that are underdeveloped that mean he could still benefit from some development in the AHL. Looking at the roster, there isn't necessarily a clear spot for him:

(not a lineup, more of a depth chart)
Huberdeau-Sharangovich-Kuzmenko
Zary-Kadri-Mantha
Coleman-Backlund-Pospisil
Lomberg-Rooney-Coronato?
Duehr-Hunt-Frk

Ideally, he shouldn't be playing 4th line minutes, but perhaps he breaks into the lineup that way and works his way up to a top 6 role.

Last year he played more games for the Wranglers than the Flames. To me, that means he's still a prospect. If he plays more games for the Flames this year than the Wranglers, I'll consider him graduated.

Koumontzis is unsigned and playing in the ECHL, but I would still consider him a prospect, at least for one more year. He's 24 and entering his second pro season. He did okay in his first season with 19 points in 47 games, so he's not a complete washout...yet. However, unless he has a great season, makes his way to the AHL, or is signed by the Flames, I would drop him off the list after this year. 24 is the absolute oldest I would consider any skater to still be a "prospect". After that, you're just a pro who may get a shot at the NHL one day if everything goes right, but more likely you become a journeyman minor leaguer.

Boltmann I would drop from the list because instead of moving on after 4 years in a college program to the pro ranks, he's going back for a 5th year at a new school. To me that says he's not ready for the pros, or doesn't think he can make it, and wants one more year where he's comfortable. I don't think he'll even make it to the ECHL. He's shown next to zero offense, and mediocre defense. He remains unsigned by the Flames. All signs point to him being a washout, even though he's only 22. Keep him on the list as a technicality, but I guarantee he'll be at the absolute bottom of the list this year.

TL;DR-Wolf and Boltmann off the list, Coronato and Koumontzis on the list.

[Bingo]

I think it's important to point out the magnitude of impact as well.

Including Wolf and Coronato in the list likely affects your top 5 (10) while including Boltmann literally affects nothing.

[manwiches]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I have an odd take, but hear me out.

Wolf is no longer a prospect. The Flames traded Markstrom ostensibly to make room for Wolf to at least share the net with Vladar. He'll at least be a backup this year, but more likely it will be 50/50. There's nobody else in the organization that is likely to make the team out of camp. He's graduated.

Coronato is far from guaranteed to make the team. He still has some physical and mental parts of his game that are underdeveloped that mean he could still benefit from some development in the AHL. Looking at the roster, there isn't necessarily a clear spot for him:

(not a lineup, more of a depth chart)
Huberdeau-Sharangovich-Kuzmenko
Zary-Kadri-Mantha
Coleman-Backlund-Pospisil
Lomberg-Rooney-Coronato?
Duehr-Hunt-Frk

Ideally, he shouldn't be playing 4th line minutes, but perhaps he breaks into the lineup that way and works his way up to a top 6 role.

Last year he played more games for the Wranglers than the Flames. To me, that means he's still a prospect. If he plays more games for the Flames this year than the Wranglers, I'll consider him graduated.

Koumontzis is unsigned and playing in the ECHL, but I would still consider him a prospect, at least for one more year. He's 24 and entering his second pro season. He did okay in his first season with 19 points in 47 games, so he's not a complete washout...yet. However, unless he has a great season, makes his way to the AHL, or is signed by the Flames, I would drop him off the list after this year. 24 is the absolute oldest I would consider any skater to still be a "prospect". After that, you're just a pro who may get a shot at the NHL one day if everything goes right, but more likely you become a journeyman minor leaguer.

Boltmann I would drop from the list because instead of moving on after 4 years in a college program to the pro ranks, he's going back for a 5th year at a new school. To me that says he's not ready for the pros, or doesn't think he can make it, and wants one more year where he's comfortable. I don't think he'll even make it to the ECHL. He's shown next to zero offense, and mediocre defense. He remains unsigned by the Flames. All signs point to him being a washout, even though he's only 22. Keep him on the list as a technicality, but I guarantee he'll be at the absolute bottom of the list this year.

TL;DR-Wolf and Boltmann off the list, Coronato and Koumontzis on the list.

You left our Pelletier in your line up there too. You bring up a good point though. The rookies/young forwards that are on the bubble have no guarantee on the opening line up. There is opportunity for maybe 2 spots between where you have Rooney and Coronato pencilled in, but they will have to be earned.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I have an odd take, but hear me out.

Wolf is no longer a prospect. The Flames traded Markstrom ostensibly to make room for Wolf to at least share the net with Vladar. He'll at least be a backup this year, but more likely it will be 50/50. There's nobody else in the organization that is likely to make the team out of camp. He's graduated.

Coronato is far from guaranteed to make the team. He still has some physical and mental parts of his game that are underdeveloped that mean he could still benefit from some development in the AHL. Looking at the roster, there isn't necessarily a clear spot for him:

(not a lineup, more of a depth chart)
Huberdeau-Sharangovich-Kuzmenko
Zary-Kadri-Mantha
Coleman-Backlund-Pospisil
Lomberg-Rooney-Coronato?
Duehr-Hunt-Frk

Ideally, he shouldn't be playing 4th line minutes, but perhaps he breaks into the lineup that way and works his way up to a top 6 role.

Last year he played more games for the Wranglers than the Flames. To me, that means he's still a prospect. If he plays more games for the Flames this year than the Wranglers, I'll consider him graduated.

Koumontzis is unsigned and playing in the ECHL, but I would still consider him a prospect, at least for one more year. He's 24 and entering his second pro season. He did okay in his first season with 19 points in 47 games, so he's not a complete washout...yet. However, unless he has a great season, makes his way to the AHL, or is signed by the Flames, I would drop him off the list after this year. 24 is the absolute oldest I would consider any skater to still be a "prospect". After that, you're just a pro who may get a shot at the NHL one day if everything goes right, but more likely you become a journeyman minor leaguer.

Boltmann I would drop from the list because instead of moving on after 4 years in a college program to the pro ranks, he's going back for a 5th year at a new school. To me that says he's not ready for the pros, or doesn't think he can make it, and wants one more year where he's comfortable. I don't think he'll even make it to the ECHL. He's shown next to zero offense, and mediocre defense. He remains unsigned by the Flames. All signs point to him being a washout, even though he's only 22. Keep him on the list as a technicality, but I guarantee he'll be at the absolute bottom of the list this year.

TL;DR-Wolf and Boltmann off the list, Coronato and Koumontzis on the list.

Was Bedard considered a prospect at the start of last season?

Just because a player is guaranteed a spot in the lineup, it isn’t relevant to his prospect status, which is entirely based on the past.

[Bingo]

The way I see it there are three arguments going on.

1) age
2) calder eligibility
3) graduation status

1) Age

At U24 it only knocks out the following ... very little impact

Aspirot, Jon
Morton, Sam
Ignatjew, W
Koumontzis, D

2) Calder

Takes out Pelletier and Coronato

3) Roster Spot

Takes out Wolf

I'm fine with taking out the 24+ year olds if we want to shorten the list.

I see the roster spot as a bigger determinant than Calder status (so Wolf out only), but I'd include them all because Wolf has never had a "made it" camp to date (this potentially being his first)

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The way I see it there are three arguments going on.

1) age
2) calder eligibility
3) graduation status

1) Age

At U24 it only knocks out the following ... very little impact

Aspirot, Jon
Morton, Sam
Ignatjew, W
Koumontzis, D

2) Calder

Takes out Pelletier and Coronato

3) Roster Spot

Takes out Wolf

I'm fine with taking out the 24+ year olds if we want to shorten the list.

I see the roster spot as a bigger determinant than Calder status (so Wolf out only), but I'd include them all because Wolf has never had a "made it" camp to date (this potentially being his first)

Agreed. Cooley brought in just in case Wolf or Vladar stumble in pre-season /regular season. Question marks remain with both goalies. So roster spot is not a certainty for Wolf although quite likely. Wolf also waiver eligible if he does stumble. Keep him in as a prospect one last time (we hope).

Goalies for me are still prospects at age 24 or 25 (Ignatjew) given their longer developent trajectory. But ok if you want to drop all above 24 years old.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The way I see it there are three arguments going on.

1) age
2) calder eligibility
3) graduation status

1) Age

At U24 it only knocks out the following ... very little impact

Aspirot, Jon
Morton, Sam
Ignatjew, W
Koumontzis, D

2) Calder

Takes out Pelletier and Coronato

3) Roster Spot

Takes out Wolf

I'm fine with taking out the 24+ year olds if we want to shorten the list.

I see the roster spot as a bigger determinant than Calder status (so Wolf out only), but I'd include them all because Wolf has never had a "made it" camp to date (this potentially being his first)

There are actually 4 arguments.

4) #### it it is summer

Include everyone who who could reasonably be called a prospect

It's not like we will have anything else to talk about between Monday and September 10th.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

There are actually 4 arguments.

4) #### it it is summer

Include everyone who who could reasonably be called a prospect

It's not like we will have anything else to talk about between Monday and September 10th.

in a way this is sort of my view- I do know that collectively its nice to compare prospect lists over the years and thus having a standard is helpful, but I think being overly inclusive (within reason) allows everyone to ponder the list as they wish- don't see Wolf as a prospect? that's ok , drop him from the list in your mind etc


I dunno...either way June- July may be the seasonal highlight for at least 2 more cycles

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

There are actually 4 arguments.

4) #### it it is summer

Include everyone who who could reasonably be called a prospect

It's not like we will have anything else to talk about between Monday and September 10th.

This. Why exclude anyone? Everyone under 24 - start voting!

(who gives a #### if they can't win the Calder, with respect to ranking our players?)

[Ba'alzamon]

Again. Call it a ranking of U24 players and all the ambiguity and arguments about what a prospect is or isn't go away.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by looooob

in a way this is sort of my view- I do know that collectively its nice to compare prospect lists over the years and thus having a standard is helpful, but I think being overly inclusive (within reason) allows everyone to ponder the list as they wish- don't see Wolf as a prospect? that's ok , drop him from the list in your mind etc


I dunno...either way June- July may be the seasonal highlight for at least 2 more cycles

This is another reason I like to include everyone. I don't just wat to compare Parech to the new guys - let's compare him against everyone, including Wolf, Zary, Coronato, etc, to see where we think they all stand.

When you remove guys, you limit the context, from year to year.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I wouldn't consider Koumontzis a prospect any longer, but it doesn't matter if we do. We own Rushan Rafikov's rights still, and with all the Russians on the team now, maybe he decides to reach out and come to camp? Probably not.


The only reason I would keep Boltmann on the list is simply because his rights expire (maybe) on August 15th. Weird circumstance.


Wolf to me is a prospect. Why? He hasn't made it. He is getting opportunity now, but he has't exactly made it. This season will be the one in which we figure out if he does or does not make it.

It is similar to me as Pelletier and Solovyov. Should they be considered prospects any longer, even though they will both be in the NHL this season and not be assigned to the AHL because they are both waiver eligible this year? I would keep them as prospects. They may not end up making it still, even with being kept up for most of the season.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Once they played more than nine games they're still a rookie, can be sent down and be considered a rookie the next year. Your take is just wrong

That's nice, you are still not supposed to be here.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Ba'alzamon

Again. Call it a ranking of U24 players and all the ambiguity and arguments about what a prospect is or isn't go away.

Ambiguity is a good thing. This isn't science.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'd say Wolf is debatable, but Coronato? I don't think so. He's had a taste, but I'd call his spot at the NHL level far from a sure thing.

I'd probably list both as prospects for these purposes.

I disagree. I think Coronato is going to bust out big time this year. Classic case of a guy that just needs a bit more pro level seasoning. Despite not having the best first year, he certainly made progress at the NHL level and was a great AHL player.

I think Sam Morton might turn into a real find as well. To jump right into the AHL like he did out of college is impressive.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

It’s simple for me. A prospect is any player with Calder trophy eligibility.

That seems like a good indicator to me.