10 digit phone numbers for local calls in Calgary (Update)

[ken0042]

Well, I just got a PFO response from the CRTC:

Dear Mr. 0042:

Thank you for taking the time to contact the CRTC.

In Telecom Decision CRTC 2007-42, the Commission noted that the main objectives for relief planning activities, as set out in the Commission-approved Canadian NPA Relief Planning Guidelines, are to provide relief that
will last for at least an eight-year period;

does not favour or disadvantage one group of carriers or users over another;

strikes a reasonable balance between economic, technical, and social impacts of implementation; and

makes the most effective and efficient use of Central Office (CO) codes serving a given area.



In reviewing the various options available in tandem with the RPC's recommendations, the Commission considers that relief options that would either require customers to take telephone number changes or increase the number of area codes required within the next 20 years are not the best solutions.

The Commission considers that the use of a single area code overlay on both area codes 403 and 780 is appropriate since it does not require customers to take number changes, preserves the identities of area codes 403 and 780, and simplifies future relief.

Accordingly, the Commission approved the relief measure proposed by the RPC, namely that a single area code be distributed over both area codes 403 and 780 effective 12 September 2008.

For full reference, please access the following document:
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/De.../dt2007-42.htm

I trust that explains the CRTC's position on the matter.

Yes, I understand that my solution would require customers to change phone numbers. Myself, I would rather Calgary have to take a new area code than to have a cluster fata of different area codes all over the province.

My guess- somebody screwed up 10 years ago. They should have given Edmonton their own area code then, and Calgary our own as well. Then everybody would only need to change area codes once. Now they are faced with making some people change area codes again, and want to avoid the backlash.

All they've done is put the frog in the water before turning on the heat; instead of dumping him in with the water boiling.

[Bobblehead]

I wonder if this affects number portability?

If new area codes are going to cover the entire province, cell phone numbers are now portable and VOIP numbers are portable, then maybe no one will need to change numbers when they move within Alberta?

[4X4]

OK, my MAth 30 is long gone. Perms and coms... How many numbers are there available with the 999 area codes available to N.A.?
Because I'm a little surprised that we're getting away with 10 digit dialling.

Won't be long before the US gets it's own international dialling code. Or we do.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by 4X4

OK, my MAth 30 is long gone. Perms and coms... How many numbers are there available with the 999 area codes available to N.A.?
Because I'm a little surprised that we're getting away with 10 digit dialling.

Well, (999)-999-9999 is one digit short of being 10 billion.

Take away any area code starting with 0 or 1 and you are down to 8 billion. Then take away other area codes and prefixes (middle three digits in a 10 digit number) that you cannot use like 911, 411, etc, and let's say you lose another 500 million numbers.

That leaves 7.5 billion numbers. I think we'll be fine. If 2 million people are just using 7.5 million numbers (Southern Alberta as my example) then North American would have to grow from 340 million to 2 billion people before we run out of numbers. And at that point there would be an epidemic of brain cancer due to so many people using cell phones.

[4X4]

Huh... I wonder why european phone numbers are so long.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Huh... I wonder why european phone numbers are so long.

I thought they were the same, just with longer country codes (we get lucky enough to have 1 for our country code).

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Huh... I wonder why european phone numbers are so long.

Ummm, basically its just their country code that is longer than ours.....oh, and they use a lot of spaces instead of xxx-xxxx, they use stuff like xx xx xxx etc.

edit: beaten like a ho

[Bobblehead]

There are a number of different telephone numbering systems in use, all using varying numbers of digits.

Wiki link

[4X4]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I thought they were the same, just with longer country codes (we get lucky enough to have 1 for our country code).

Yeah.. No... The 1 we dial (while inside NA) indicates NA. If calling from Europe to NA, it's 001-XXX-XXX-XXXX.

To call Europe from NA, we dial 011-XX-XXX-XX-XX-XXX (Ducay is right about how they break up their numbers differently).

But while in Europe, to call another phone in Europe, it's +XX-XXX-XX-XX-XXX. The plus can be replaced by two zeros.
If the number you're calling is in the same country, it can be anywhere from 6 to 10 digits.

I suppose it's just because growing up in Canada changes the way I look at geographic areas.
The way phoning is in Europe is like if you had to dial an extra 3 or 4 digits to call from Washington to Idaho, or Alberta to BC, or Alberta to Washington.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Yeah.. No... The 1 we dial (while inside NA) indicates NA. If calling from Europe to NA, it's 001-XXX-XXX-XXXX.

To call Europe from NA, we dial 011-XX-XXX-XX-XX-XXX (Ducay is right about how they break up their numbers differently).

But while in Europe, to call another phone in Europe, it's +XX-XXX-XX-XX-XXX. The plus can be replaced by two zeros.
If the number you're calling is in the same country, it can be anywhere from 6 to 10 digits.

I suppose it's just because growing up in Canada changes the way I look at geographic areas.
The way phoning is in Europe is like if you had to dial an extra 3 or 4 digits to call from Washington to Idaho, or Alberta to BC, or Alberta to Washington.

Yeah... yes.

International access in Europe is 00. The country code for Canada and the US is 1. You said yourself you dial + or two 0's then the country code. So to dial Canada or the US from Europe, you dial 001.

International access in NA is either + or 011.

So since you lived in Italy, I'll use that as an example:

Italy to Canada:

001-XXX-XXX-XXXX or +1-XXX-XXX-XXXX. International access, 1 digit country code, 10 digit number.

Canada to Italy:

011-39-XXX-XX-XX-XXX or +39-XXX-XX-XX-XXX. International access, 2 digit country code, 10 digit number.

[LouCypher]

This is a good example of a lack of foresight that went into many things at conception as this province was first developing and upgrading technologically.

[4X4]

Hulk, what I'm talking about is not intercontinental. I'm talking about calling 100 or 400 or 800 km away.
I'm saying that at least we don't have to dial an extra 3 digits just to cross the border between alberta and BC or alberta and idaho or idaho and washington.

I guess it's a small advantage to have all the area codes you want in every country. Sort of like back in the day (as someone already mentioned), you knew that someone was calling from bonavista when a 278 number showed up, or acadia with 253. Of course there were only 4 numbers following the 3 digit prefix.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Hulk, what I'm talking about is not intercontinental. I'm talking about calling 100 or 400 or 800 km away.
I'm saying that at least we don't have to dial an extra 3 digits just to cross the border between alberta and BC or alberta and idaho or idaho and washington.

I guess it's a small advantage to have all the area codes you want in every country. Sort of like back in the day (as someone already mentioned), you knew that someone was calling from bonavista when a 278 number showed up, or acadia with 253. Of course there were only 4 numbers following the 3 digit prefix.

Not sure if I have this figured out... Let's say you are calling from Rome to Milan. Do you have to dial the country code for Italy (+39) to make that call? If so, I think I get what you're saying.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Not sure if I have this figured out... Let's say you are calling from Rome to Milan. Do you have to dial the country code for Italy (+39) to make that call? If so, I think I get what you're saying.

No, not from rome to milan. Rome to milan would be 10 digits. But, if you call from milan to geneva, which is closer than rome, you dial 13 digits.

After our friendly neighbourhood math guy calculated that with 10 digits, there are 7.5 billion numbers, I don't see the reason why europe has country codes. I suppose it could have been a territorial thing from the past that is too counterproductive to remove.

I'm just glad that all we'll have to ever dial is 10 digits within north america.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by 4X4

No, not from rome to milan. Rome to milan would be 10 digits. But, if you call from milan to geneva, which is closer than rome, you dial 13 digits.

After our friendly neighbourhood math guy calculated that with 10 digits, there are 7.5 billion numbers, I don't see the reason why europe has country codes. I suppose it could have been a territorial thing from the past that is too counterproductive to remove.

I'm just glad that all we'll have to ever dial is 10 digits within north america.

ok, so I dial Paris to Roma
I dial 011-then 10 digits = 13

Now I want to dial Houston, from Calgary
I dial 1-then 10 digits (area code + 7) = 11

Its the same amount of digits, its just that we dont have to dial the 2 zeros in front of the 1 in our country code.
Theoretically its still just dialing the 3 digit country code then 7 digit ph. number

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by 4X4

No, not from rome to milan. Rome to milan would be 10 digits. But, if you call from milan to geneva, which is closer than rome, you dial 13 digits.

After our friendly neighbourhood math guy calculated that with 10 digits, there are 7.5 billion numbers, I don't see the reason why europe has country codes. I suppose it could have been a territorial thing from the past that is too counterproductive to remove.

I'm just glad that all we'll have to ever dial is 10 digits within north america.

Ahh, so you just wish there was more sharing of country codes like Canada and the US do. I think it's a bit of a sovereignty issue, that this way each country has control of it's own set of phone numbers. Plus it avoids a major mess down the road if the number of phone numbers given out passed the point where shared country codes work.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Ducay

ok, so I dial Paris to Roma
I dial 011-then 10 digits = 13

Now I want to dial Houston, from Calgary
I dial 1-then 10 digits (area code + 7) = 11

Its the same amount of digits, its just that we dont have to dial the 2 zeros in front of the 1 in our country code.
Theoretically its still just dialing the 3 digit country code then 7 digit ph. number

No... Paris to Roma would be +39 XXX XX XX XXX

+39 is the country code for Italy. Since you're calling from outside Italy, you need to dial it. But still, 13 digits to call the same distance as calling Vancouver from Calgary.

Canada to Italy would be 011 39 XXX XX XX XXX

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by 4X4

No... Paris to Roma would be +39 XXX XX XX XXX

+39 is the country code for Italy. Since you're calling from outside Italy, you need to dial it. But still, 13 digits to call the same distance as calling Vancouver from Calgary.

Canada to Italy would be 011 39 XXX XX XX XXX

You're basically complainging that the land mass of Italy is too small. The determining factor is borders, not kilometers the phone call is travelling. National borders are a pretty logical division for distributing telephone numbers. Dialing within your country is 10 digits in NA or Europe.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

You're basically complainging that the land mass of Italy is too small. The determining factor is borders, not kilometers the phone call is travelling. National borders are a pretty logical division for distributing telephone numbers. Dialing within your country is 10 digits in NA or Europe.

Complaining, eh? What I said was that we should be glad that we don't have to dial 13 digits to cross a provincial or state border in NA.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Complaining, eh? What I said was that we should be glad that we don't have to dial 13 digits to cross a provincial or state border in NA.

And I was saying you don't have to dial 13 digits across a provicial or state border in Europe either