2024 Off-season trade rumours and speculation thread

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Sounds like Skinner may be bought out, so I don’t think this is likely to happen.

That said, and believe Warrener mentioned this on BB, sounds like the Sabres are interested in Mangiapanne.

What do the Flames need to add to get 11?

Mangiapane and 28OV for 11OV would be a great deal for us.

If they buy out Skinner and we don't have to retain salary, huge win for the Flames.

Buyout of Skinner makes 0 sense though. Buffalo must be desperate.

[Ba'alzamon]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Well, it sounds like Skinner may get bought out. The cap and real money savings has to be enticing. Especially if the Flames are willing to take him at full freight.

I guess the real question is, will the Sabres have a better option?

Buying Skinner out doesn't cost them the 11th pick, though. If they buy him out, and they still want to dangle the pick, they could get a better return than Mangiapane.

Andersson, for example.

I'm not saying they wouldn't trade Skinner with the 11th, I just think they would need more than Mangiapane to entice them to do so. Probably a lot more. Early picks are valuable, especially in draft week.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Mangiapane and 28OV for 11OV would be a great deal for us.

If they buy out Skinner and we don't have to retain salary, huge win for the Flames.

Buyout of Skinner makes 0 sense though. Buffalo must be desperate.

I doubt Mangiapane has that much value. I think it would be more along the lines of Mangiapane for a 2nd, maybe even as low as a 3rd + 5th if we aren't retaining.

If we want the 11th overall likely Buffalo wants Sharangovich. I could also see them going for Pospisil + late 1st/high 2nd.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Ba'alzamon

Buying Skinner out doesn't cost them the 11th pick, though. If they buy him out, and they still want to dangle the pick, they could get a better return than Mangiapane.

Andersson, for example.

I'm not saying they wouldn't trade Skinner with the 11th, I just think they would need more than Mangiapane to entice them to do so. Probably a lot more. Early picks are valuable, especially in draft week.

Easily, if the move is to replace Skinner, why Mangiapane. Add Skinner buy out to Mangiapane's contract.

2024/25 - $5.8 mil + $1.4 mil = $7.2 mil

Clearly if you trade for Mangiapane, you would want to sign him

5 years @ $6mi per year (estimate)

25/26 - $6 mil + $4.4 mil = $10.4 mil
26/27 - $6 mil + $6.4 mil = $12.4 mil
Last 3 year - $6 mil + $2.4 mil = $8.4 mil

Mangiapane is no better than Skinner, this saves them no cap and they are out the 11OV pick? Terrible

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I doubt Mangiapane has that much value. I think it would be more along the lines of Mangiapane for a 2nd, maybe even as low as a 3rd + 5th if we aren't retaining.

If we want the 11th overall likely Buffalo wants Sharangovich. I could also see them going for Pospisil + late 1st/high 2nd.

I agree, I would do it for sure. Huge win if the Flames got it done...Buffalo shouldn't even consider it. They really should not buy out Skinner, trade him in a deal with 11OV makes sense. They have enough high-end prospects, they need to get 100% out of the contract.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Easily, if the move is to replace Skinner, why Mangiapane. Add Skinner buy out to Mangiapane's contract.

2024/25 - $5.8 mil + $1.4 mil = $7.2 mil

Clearly if you trade for Mangiapane, you would want to sign him

5 years @ $6mi per year (estimate)

25/26 - $6 mil + $4.4 mil = $10.4 mil
26/27 - $6 mil + $6.4 mil = $12.4 mil
Last 3 year - $6 mil + $2.4 mil = $8.4 mil

Mangiapane is no better than Skinner, this saves them no cap and they are out the 11OV pick? Terrible

In fairness, SKinner is MUCH better than Mangiapane.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

In fairness, SKinner is MUCH better than Mangiapane.

He is but I'm giving some of the posters the benefit of the doubt here.

[FlamesAddiction]

I haven't been following that closely. Is the rumour that the Sabres would trade Skinner somewhere with that team agreeing to buy him out for them? Because Skinner has a full NMC and would almost certainly prefer to be bought out and then sign somewhere as a UFA. I doubt he would accept a trade anywhere if the alternative is a buy out from the Sabres.

He has a base salary of $22 million left and a buyout would still see him getting $19.66 million of that stretched over time. As a 32 year old UFA, another team would certainly give him a contract that would more than make up for the difference.

An almost $20 million cash buy out and several years of dead cap would have to be worth multiple 1st rounders I would think.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Trade for Skinner to buy him out? Skinner is owed $22M over three years. If you did buy him out you'd be tying up just under $2.5M for six years and only save $7M. I would hope you'd have to see at least two first round picks coming back, plus another quality asset. If the deal was the Sabres 2024 and 2025 1st rounders and Jiri Kulich to take on Skinner and buy him out, then maybe you could talk Edwards into that move. MAYBE. That's a lot of scratch to shell out for no immediate value.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Trade for Skinner to buy him out? Skinner is owed $22M over three years. If you did buy him out you'd be tying up just under $2.5M for six years and only save $7M. I would hope you'd have to see at least two first round picks coming back, plus another quality asset. If the deal was the Sabres 2024 and 2025 1st rounders and Jiri Kulich to take on Skinner and buy him out, then maybe you could talk Edwards into that move. MAYBE. That's a lot of scratch to shell out for no immediate value.

With the flames pretty much rebuilding they wouldn’t need to buy him out. They could just let him play at a high price on the roster. Not sure sabres are dangling their 11th overall to take him on though

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Easily, if the move is to replace Skinner, why Mangiapane. Add Skinner buy out to Mangiapane's contract.

2024/25 - $5.8 mil + $1.4 mil = $7.2 mil

Clearly if you trade for Mangiapane, you would want to sign him

5 years @ $6mi per year (estimate)

25/26 - $6 mil + $4.4 mil = $10.4 mil
26/27 - $6 mil + $6.4 mil = $12.4 mil
Last 3 year - $6 mil + $2.4 mil = $8.4 mil

Mangiapane is no better than Skinner, this saves them no cap and they are out the 11OV pick? Terrible

To be clear, what I’ve suggested is trading Skinner with the 11OA pick as a way to avoid a buy out.

You’re right, Mangiapanne is not as good as Skinner, but he’s 2/3 the cost moving forward, max. Probably less. Cap space is the most, or close to it, valuable asset a team can have. This also allows the Sabres more options elsewhere.

Isn’t enough for 11OA, probably not. Flames may need to add but not at the expense of 28OA, I think.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I haven't been following that closely. Is the rumour that the Sabres would trade Skinner somewhere with that team agreeing to buy him out for them? Because Skinner has a full NMC and would almost certainly prefer to be bought out and then sign somewhere as a UFA. I doubt he would accept a trade anywhere if the alternative is a buy out from the Sabres.

He has a base salary of $22 million left and a buyout would still see him getting $19.66 million of that stretched over time. As a 32 year old UFA, another team would certainly give him a contract that would more than make up for the difference.

An almost $20 million cash buy out and several years of dead cap would have to be worth multiple 1st rounders I would think.

Remaining Salary: $22M
Remaining Cap Hit: $27M
Buyout Amount: $14,666,667

Savings to BUF in Cash: $14,666,667
Savings to BUF in Cap Space: $19,666,670


Dead Cap Hits for Team who does buyout:

24-25 - $1.4M
25-26 - $4.4M
26-27 - $6.4M
27-28 - $2.4M
28-29 - $2.4M
Total Dead Cap - $19.67M

I don't see how a trade can get done. For an organization to spend $14.6M and give up $3.3M in cap space over 6 years..... I don't think there is a comparable for that. That would be an enormous amount.

Something like Benson + 2-3 First round picks variety.

NOW Skinner for the remaining 3 YEARS @ $9M per - $27M Cap space vs $22M Salary - that is something that the Flames can definitely do and should consider. That is easily worth BUF 11 OA ++ to take 3 YEARS of Skinner off BUF books. Possibly 2 firsts.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Trade for Skinner to buy him out? Skinner is owed $22M over three years. If you did buy him out you'd be tying up just under $2.5M for six years and only save $7M. I would hope you'd have to see at least two first round picks coming back, plus another quality asset. If the deal was the Sabres 2024 and 2025 1st rounders and Jiri Kulich to take on Skinner and buy him out, then maybe you could talk Edwards into that move. MAYBE. That's a lot of scratch to shell out for no immediate value.

I wouldn’t buy Skinner out. I would keep him for this year, at least, and then retain and flip him.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

With the flames pretty much rebuilding they wouldn’t need to buy him out. They could just let him play at a high price on the roster. Not sure sabres are dangling their 11th overall to take him on though

Originally Posted by TOfan

I wouldn’t buy Skinner out. I would keep him for this year, at least, and then retain and flip him.

I believe their post considered that Skinner wouldn't waive his NMC unless the acquiring team had agreed in advance to buy him out. How much is $14M+ in actual dollars worth and $27M in cap hit over six years worth in trade and would Edwards give the okay on that?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by D as in David

I believe their post considered that Skinner wouldn't waive his NMC unless the acquiring team had agreed in advance to buy him out. How much is $14M+ in actual dollars worth and $27M in cap hit over six years worth in trade and would Edwards give the okay on that?

Ah, ok.

If that were the case, Buffalo would have to give up much more than 11OA. That would be a pretty big flex by Skinner.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Remaining Salary: $22M
Remaining Cap Hit: $27M
Buyout Amount: $14,666,667

Savings to BUF in Cash: $14,666,667
Savings to BUF in Cap Space: $19,666,670


Dead Cap Hits for Team who does buyout:

24-25 - $1.4M
25-26 - $4.4M
26-27 - $6.4M
27-28 - $2.4M
28-29 - $2.4M
Total Dead Cap - $19.67M

I don't see how a trade can get done. For an organization to spend $14.6M and give up $3.3M in cap space over 6 years..... I don't think there is a comparable for that. That would be an enormous amount.

Something like Benson + 2-3 First round picks variety.

NOW Skinner for the remaining 3 YEARS @ $9M per - $27M Cap space vs $22M Salary - that is something that the Flames can definitely do and should consider. That is easily worth BUF 11 OA ++ to take 3 YEARS of Skinner off BUF books. Possibly 2 firsts.

Oh, ok. I was looking at post buy out cap hit and not earnings. Still, I could see him getting another contract after a buy out that makes him whole and gives him some control over where he goes.

Forcing the Sabres to buy him out probably makes more sense than accepting a trade to play out the contract somewhere else, unless it was a contender which given his cap hit would be unlikely.

If I were him, I'd just say no to a trade and see if they go the buy out route (unless the trade included an agreement to be bought out). I could see a contender giving him a 4x4 or 5x3.2 contract, and financially he pretty much breaks even.

[CliffFletcher]

There’s no way the Sabres trade away the 11th OV pick just to get out of Skinner’s contract. They’ll buy him out first.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by D as in David

I believe their post considered that Skinner wouldn't waive his NMC unless the acquiring team had agreed in advance to buy him out. How much is $14M+ in actual dollars worth and $27M in cap hit over six years worth in trade and would Edwards give the okay on that?

With the NMC in place, Calgary could retain a portion of his salary in a trade sending him to a third team where he'd like to go. Buffalo retains 25%, Calgary retains 25%, team X gets Skinner at a price he should outperform.

It's a more reasonable price and timeframe for Buffalo than if they bought him out, but a deal like this probably makes more sense after the draft once a couple teams miss on the top free agent wingers.

Looking at Buffalo's roster, I'd like the 11th this year, but I'd be fine with an unprotected first rounder next year too. That team still has a lot of question marks.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There’s no way the Sabres trade away the 11th OV pick just to get out of Skinner’s contract. They’ll buy him out first.

I agree, but that year three hit is pretty massive... Pretty tough to buy him out now if they think they're going to be competing in three years. Might as well just keep him.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

With the NMC in place, Calgary could retain a portion of his salary in a trade sending him to a third team where he'd like to go. Buffalo retains 25%, Calgary retains 25%, team X gets Skinner at a price he should outperform.

It's a more reasonable price and timeframe for Buffalo than if they bought him out, but a deal like this probably makes more sense after the draft once a couple teams miss on the top free agent wingers.

Looking at Buffalo's roster, I'd like the 11th this year, but I'd be fine with an unprotected first rounder next year too. That team still has a lot of question marks.

I think part of this is Skinner and the idea he could make more money with a buy out and new contract somewhere else.