[Trade] Elias Lindholm to VAN for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond 2024 4th

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Calling wolf anything but an A+ prospect, is outright disrespectful, in light of what he's accomplished at this point in his career.

But he was drafted in the 7th round so B prospect it is.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

But he was drafted in the 7th round so B prospect it is.

Lol, I guess Datsyuk and Zetterberg were B prospects back in the day. Good to know.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Lol, I guess Datsyuk and Zetterberg were B prospects back in the day. Good to know.

I suspect if you looked back that's where lots of people had them. It's not a science.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Lol, I guess Datsyuk and Zetterberg were B prospects back in the day. Good to know.

I guess the sarcasm was not evident.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Too many Jurmophobes in this thread.

The kid just needs to work on his finish.

[RedHawk12]

I don't think it's completely unreasonable to call our best prospects right now (Coronato, Wolf, Brzustewicz) "B" prospects. Wolf is probably closer to an "A" prospect, but his size will always be questioned until he proves himself in the NHL, and even then, after every losing streak or playoff series loss, the size thing will come up again.

I don't think the Flames have true "A" prospects at the moment, which is ok. I believe we have yet to draft our next "core". Getting a few top 10 picks in the 24 to 26 drafts will go a long way to changing that.

I don't view Coronato and Pelletier as true core players. They're smaller role players with niche attributes. Coronato is a pure sniper/PP specialist like an Arvidsson and Pelletier is a sandpaper 3rd/4th line guy. Often times, as a rebuilding team truly builds up their prospects base, then the actual value of those prospects become more clear.

Like if we drafted Tij or Catton this year, and we luck out on and got Hagens/Martone next year and maybe Joe Iggy/McKenna in 26 then yeah, I don't think anyone would have much trouble admitting that Coronato and Pelletier are a step down.

Similar thing with a guy like Jeremie Poirier. I'd probably get roasted 2 years ago calling him a C prospect and might still now. But then a prospect like Brzustewicz shows up - way better counting stats in junior and not as much of a defensive gong-show. Then if we draft a guy like Perekh - Elite numbers, solid outlet passing, defensively relatively sound. Then that's your A/A+, Brz is your B/B+ and Poirier is your C. Truth is, Poirier is still a bit of a mess in his own zone and would be a bit of a longshot to having a lengthy top-4 career.

Again, I have no problem categorizing our guys as B's, and I'm excited to be drafting our potentials A's in the coming drafts.

[Jay Random]

So what does a goalie have to do to be classified as an A prospect, other than be 6'6"?

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

So what does a goalie have to do to be classified as an A prospect, other than be 6'6"?

No I think you nailed it. Wolf would be a A+ if he was 6'6. But he's not.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

No I think you nailed it. Wolf would be a A+ if he was 6'6. But he's not.

Funny, most teenagers who are 6'6" aren't A+ goalie prospects. Apparently there's some skill involved as well.

Which is to say, I think the obsession with Wolf's height is misplaced. As Billy Beane said, we're not selling jeans here. If a man can stop that many pucks, I don't care how he does it, or even if he's the size of Yoda.

[Groot]

After the trade deadline, Wolf had 11 games played. He was above .920 in 5 of those games, .909 in two, 3 between 0.857 and 0.875, with one game below .800

He's proven his floor is a serviceable NHL goalie. Now we get to see what his ceiling is.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Funny, most teenagers who are 6'6" aren't A+ goalie prospects. Apparently there's some skill involved as well.

Which is to say, I think the obsession with Wolf's height is misplaced. As Billy Beane said, we're not selling jeans here. If a man can stop that many pucks, I don't care how he does it, or even if he's the size of Yoda.

Saying most 6'6 teenagers aren't A+ goalie prospects doesn't make Wolf an A+ goalie prospect despite the fact he's not. (That was tough to articulate haha)

I agree with you to an extent. He has proven he can stop the puck at every level and is as close of a blue-chip prospect as we have. But his size is still and will continue to be an issue. Just like Johnny. We questioned his size and "blue-chip"-iness until he made it, and then after every playoff loss we questioned if he could actually lead a team and score when it gets tough. Doesn't mean he won't be a star, just like Johnny, but the questions will always be there.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Funny, most teenagers who are 6'6" aren't A+ goalie prospects. Apparently there's some skill involved as well.

Which is to say, I think the obsession with Wolf's height is misplaced. As Billy Beane said, we're not selling jeans here. If a man can stop that many pucks, I don't care how he does it, or even if he's the size of Yoda.

If he was 6’1 instead of 6 foot we could say he is the next Shesterkin. Or Binnington

If he was 5’11 he would be the next Saros.

6’2 he could be Swayman, or Bobrovsky

But at 6 foot even he is just too small.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

If he was 6’1 instead of 6 foot we could say he is the next Shesterkin. Or Binnington

If he was 5’11 he would be the next Saros.

6’2 he could be Swayman, or Bobrovsky

But at 6 foot even he is just too small.

Juuse Saros is the shortest goalie in the NHL and he plays at 180lb. The average size of NHL goalies is 6'3".

Wolf played last season at 166-175 lb? That's small. Sure, Wolf can excel like Saros. He may well be better than Saros. In the future, a 5"9 175 lb goalie may say "hey, I can be like Wolf". But the odds are still stacked against that kid, just like it is stacked against Wolf.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Wolf played last season at 166-175 lb? That's small.

Why is his weight relevant? A taller goalie generally has longer legs (so he can block more of the net in the butterfly) and arms (so he can catch or block more pucks). But what's the advantage of being heavier? You can be sure Wolf isn't playing with smaller pads just because his body has a bit less frontal area to cover.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

That poster would call Bedard a B prospect if he played for the Flames hahaha. It's his style.

Yeah but sometimes with our luck Bedard would turn into a B prospect if he played for the Flames!

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Calling wolf anything but an A+ prospect, is outright disrespectful, in light of what he's accomplished at this point in his career.

I don't see Wolf the same way you do. Wolf has been the MVP in the AHL, for 2 years, and a lot better than his backups like Dansk. That said, Wolf struggled stopping a good offensive team in Coachella Valley in 2 consecutive playoff runs, and during the regular season.

I also have a very hard time figuring what he is at the NHL level. Right now he seems like a .900 backup that might turn into a starter one day. He has shown flashes, but so do a lot of backups(especially when they play the Flames). I'm not betting against Wolf, but I'm not as certain we have a future top 10-15 goalie in the NHL on our hands, that would be an A+ prospect for me.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by Buff

Yeah but sometimes with our luck Bedard would turn into a B prospect if he played for the Flames!

The Legend of Connor Bedard thread would crash the servers.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I don't see Wolf the same way you do. Wolf has been the MVP in the AHL, for 2 years, and a lot better than his backups like Dansk. That said, Wolf struggled stopping a good offensive team in Coachella Valley in 2 consecutive playoff runs, and during the regular season.

I also have a very hard time figuring what he is at the NHL level. Right now he seems like a .900 backup that might turn into a starter one day. He has shown flashes, but so do a lot of backups(especially when they play the Flames). I'm not betting against Wolf, but I'm not as certain we have a future top 10-15 goalie in the NHL on our hands, that would be an A+ prospect for me.

The jury is still out on Wolf

Goalies are hard to judge. You don’t judge a prospect just based on what he has done in the lower leagues but on what his potential is in the NHL.
A+ for Wolf or any goalie prospect is a joke.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Calling wolf anything but an A+ prospect, is outright disrespectful, in light of what he's accomplished at this point in his career.

It's not disrespectful, it's just the reality he faces. This is the same tired argument we heard about Matthew Phillips - size doesn't matter. Except it does. Sized for a goaltender is a huge advantage. The game has evolved to work against Wolf's strength which is his athleticism. Players shoot harder and with more accuracy now, eliminating a lot of the athleticism that used to be an advantage. It is unfortunate, but that is the way things have evolved. It doesn't mean a small goaltender will not flourish, it means they have to work harder and be off the charts in other areas. People recognize Wolf's ability and respect him for it, but they also recognize the reality of today's game. It's why the big goaltenders like Askarov and Wallstedt continually show up ahead of the much more accomplished Wolf on top prospect lists. And don't think the size issue affects only Wolf. Devon Levi is facing the same issues. Both Wolf and Levi have been stellar in the minors but their size still remains an issue they must prove is not a limiting factor while the bigger less accomplished prospects remain unchallenged. It is unfortunately the way it is and the reason both goaltenders are not A grade prospects.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Why is his weight relevant? A taller goalie generally has longer legs (so he can block more of the net in the butterfly) and arms (so he can catch or block more pucks). But what's the advantage of being heavier? You can be sure Wolf isn't playing with smaller pads just because his body has a bit less frontal area to cover.

Did you never hear the Mike Richards “Rita McNeil in goal” segment?