[Rumour] Contract talks with Kylington progressing

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Still waiting for you and supermatt to backup this claim.

We have already explained it to you.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

We have already explained it to you.

No you actually haven't at all. Neither you or anyone else.

How could the Flames have not paid a player dealing with mental health issues?

Just because you say that doesn't make it true. Back up your claims with evidence.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

No, he is a troll because of what he posts constantly. Are you saying you agree the Flames didn't do anything appreciative here, didn't handle it well, and deserve no credit because they were forced into the situation?

I can't speak for ZM and what he posts. That said calling someone a troll is so childish.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Dion

I can't speak for ZM and what he posts. That said calling someone a troll is so childish.

Except when it's accurate.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

No you actually haven't at all. Neither you or anyone else.

How could the Flames have not paid a player dealing with mental health issues?

Just because you say that doesn't make it true. Back up your claims with evidence.

The team easily could have asked the league to push the contract. They could have suspended the player for not reporting to camp. There were avenues they could have tried. Instead they supported the player the whole way. They didn't have to and deserve credit for working with him during I tough time. So yes, they deserve credit.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Except when it's accurate.

Grow up!

[Dion]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The team easily could have asked the league to push the contract. They could have suspended the player for not reporting to camp. There were avenues they could have tried. Instead they supported the player the whole way. They didn't have to and deserve credit for working with him during I tough time. So yes, they deserve credit.

All you've provided is hearsay and no documented facts to back up your claim.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The team easily could have asked the league to push the contract. They could have suspended the player for not reporting to camp. There were avenues they could have tried. Instead they supported the player the whole way. They didn't have to and deserve credit for working with him during I tough time. So yes, they deserve credit.

I never said whether they deserve credit. They could also ask for whatever they want but if Kylington doesn't agree then he still gets PAID.

They can't suspend a player for not showing up to camp when they agreed for him to not come to camp.

Again, the Flames had no choice but to pay him. You can play the what if game all you want but the fact remains that the Calgary Flames had 0 reason to not pay Kylington unless Kylington broke his contract, and he never did.

So saying Flames deserve credit for continuing to pay him is just wrong.

The owner doesn't wanna pay for sidewalks and you think he just wanted to pay Kylington out of the goodness of his heart? Puhhhlease. He got paid because they had go pay him.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

They can't suspend a player for not showing up to camp when they agreed for him to not come to camp.

They didn't have to agree for him not to come to camp, did they?

Frankly, the Flames could have handled the situation the way the Oilers have handled Sheldon Souray. They could have been dicks and insisted Kylington show up for work anyway, since there was nothing visibly wrong with him. Then, if he still didn't show, they could have applied to toll or terminate his contract.

Treating players better than the Oilers may be a low bar, but it's something players value.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

They didn't have to agree for him not to come to camp, did they?

Yeah, and? That wasn't what I said, was it?

Dissentowner said they had the choice to not pay him. The Flames had the choice to say he had to come to camp and then Kylington would simply have to come to camp and not participate and still get paid.

But that's not what happened so why are we playing a game that didn't happen. Flames had to pay Kylington and they did.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

They didn't have to agree for him not to come to camp, did they?

Frankly, the Flames could have handled the situation the way the Oilers have handled Sheldon Souray. They could have been dicks and insisted Kylington show up for work anyway, since there was nothing visibly wrong with him. Then, if he still didn't show, they could have applied to toll or terminate his contract.

Treating players better than the Oilers may be a low bar, but it's something players value.

I just think times have changed. I believe a Dr note or whatever would be enough for him to get his leave. Not sure how it works in hockey I’m just going off regular jobs.

I’ve had managers send a dr note for high blood pressure and that’s it. They go on short term or long term.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Yeah, and? That wasn't what I said, was it?

That was EXACTLY what you said:

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

They can't suspend a player for not showing up to camp when they agreed for him to not come to camp.

Dissentowner said they had the choice to not pay him. The Flames had the choice to say he had to come to camp and then Kylington would simply have to come to camp and not participate and still get paid.

It's clear that he wasn't well enough to come to camp, and the Flames recognized that. If they had demanded he show up anyway, he still wouldn't have been able to do it, and they could have sought other remedies instead of paying him. They didn't choose to do those things.

But that's not what happened so why are we playing a game that didn't happen. Flames had to pay Kylington and they did.

It didn't happen because the Flames chose not to be dicks about it. That deserves some degree of recognition.

Some people spend their lives looking for ways to be dicks.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Columbus seemed to figure out a way to get Texier off the cap and not pay him for his mental health issues when he didn't report to the team.

I have a feeling Flames could have found a similar route if they wanted to.

https://spectrumnews1.com/oh/columbu...m-blue-jackets

We heard recently that Laine wants out partly because he felt CLB didn't help him at all with his mental health struggles. Seems like they are just a uniquely bad org to be honest.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That was EXACTLY what you said:

Are you OK? I never said the Flames HAD to agree. I said they did agree. So why again are we pretending the Flames had a choice to not pay him.

It's clear that he wasn't well enough to come to camp, and the Flames recognized that. If they had demanded he show up anyway, he still wouldn't have been able to do it, and they could have sought other remedies instead of paying him. They didn't choose to do those things.

That's a lot of assuming. You know he wouldn't have been able to show up to camp if he was gonna lose millions of dollars? This scenario again didn't happen so it's irrelevant. The fact is the Flames agreed for him to not show up and he didn't. He didn't break his contract and he rightfully was paid.

It didn't happen because the Flames chose not to be dicks about it. That deserves some degree of recognition.

Some people spend their lives looking for ways to be dicks.

You're right, it didn't happen so why are we talking about it? He got paid because he had to get paid. I'll continue to say that because it's what happened.

All these imaginary scenarios mean nothing because they didn't happen.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Are you OK? I never said the Flames HAD to agree. I said they did agree. So why again are we pretending the Flames had to choice to not pay him.

You really don't get it, do you?

The Flames DID NOT HAVE to agree. If they had not agreed, the situation would have been different. They COULD have been stupidly stubborn about it, like you for instance, but they chose to act like decent human beings – which not every organization does. Edmonton and Columbus are two counterexamples from this thread.

The fact that the Flames handled the matter with class and compassion FROM THE START does not mean that they don't deserve any credit for doing so.

All these imaginary scenarios mean nothing because they didn't happen.

By that standard, nobody ever deserves credit for doing anything good, because the alternative scenario where they didn't do it never happened.

You're not even attempting to use your loaf here.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by saillias

We heard recently that Laine wants out partly because he felt CLB didn't help him at all with his mental health struggles. Seems like they are just a uniquely bad org to be honest.

Did CBJ have to pay Laine? Yep.

Did they have to treat him better? No

Did the Flames treat Kylington good? Yes

This is a total separate issue from how an organization treats a player and what the contract is.

Organizations should treat their players well but let's not attach praise where it doesn't belong.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by saillias

We heard recently that Laine wants out partly because he felt CLB didn't help him at all with his mental health struggles. Seems like they are just a uniquely bad org to be honest.

Lets be clear on that issue regarding Texier..

Texier will not be paid by Columbus this season, nor will his contract count against the salary cap. Per an agreement between the player, team, NHL, and NHLPA, Texier will be permitted to sign a one-year contract in Europe for the 2022-23 season to be closer to his family

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2022...23-season.html

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You really don't get it, do you?

The Flames DID NOT HAVE to agree. If they had not agreed, the situation would have been different. They COULD have been stupidly stubborn about it, like you for instance, but they chose to act like decent human beings – which not every organization does. Edmonton and Columbus are two counterexamples from this thread.

The fact that the Flames handled the matter with class and compassion FROM THE START does not mean that they don't deserve any credit for doing so.



By that standard, nobody ever deserves credit for doing anything good, because the alternative scenario where they didn't do it never happened.

You're not even attempting to use your loaf here.

You're arguing something totally different here. Again, the Flames had to pay Kylington. That's all I argued.

Anything else, I really don't care about. If you want to throw praise at an organization for treating a player like a human being then eat your heart out.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

You're arguing something totally different here. Again, the Flames had to pay Kylington. That's all I argued.

AFTER they agreed for him not to come to camp, they had to pay him. But in the circumstances, they DID NOT HAVE TO AGREE, and then they had options not to pay him. They did not seek to use any of those options, even though it caused them to pay a man several million dollars for no work.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

AFTER they agreed for him not to come to camp, they had to pay him. But in the circumstances, they DID NOT HAVE TO AGREE, and then they had options not to pay him. They did not seek to use any of those options.

Yes which I never argued so why did you enter this conversation?