[Rumour] Contract talks with Kylington progressing

[Bubba17]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Paid by the company or insurance?

Company insurance pays at a max rate of 66%. I don't think he "owes" the Flames anything, but he should appreciate what they did for him and possibly give them a "thanks" in negotiations, like a slight home town discount (not off previous contract but maybe off what others offer, i.e. $3.3 from option 1 to Flames at $3.1 type of thing).

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Bubba17

Company insurance pays at a max rate of 66%. I don't think he "owes" the Flames anything, but he should appreciate what they did for him and possibly give them a "thanks" in negotiations, like a slight home town discount (not off previous contract but maybe off what others offer, i.e. $3.3 from option 1 to Flames at $3.1 type of thing).

And if you do it correctly, the 66.6% is post tax.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I feel like most places don't give 18 months paid mental health leave either.

Flames 100% did the right thing...there is no debating that. But the fact is they didn't have to, and if they wanted to they likely could have found a way to no pay him during that absence.

But it's also not wrong to recognize the Flames did the right thing, while also saying that Kylington should have a level of gratitude and owes the Flames something due to that.

If my company gave me 18 months of paid mental health leave I certainly wouldn't come back to work and ask for a raise....but I also wouldn't expect them to cut my salary and give me a pay cut.

The Flames had to pay his contract. You can't void a contract for mental health issues.

Not sure why people keep repeating that like the Flames did it out of the goodness of their hearts.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

The Flames had to pay his contract. You can't void a contract for mental health issues.

Not sure why people keep repeating that like the Flames did it out of the goodness of their hearts.

They sure could have made him report and terminate the contract if he didn’t.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

The Flames had to pay his contract. You can't void a contract for mental health issues.

Not sure why people keep repeating that like the Flames did it out of the goodness of their hearts.

Nobody said they would void his contract. They definitely had the choice to not pay him.

[Zary's-Mustache]

The examples in the thread of Texier and ranger being the same situation as Kylington is just plain wrong.

Texier and the nhl and nhlpa agreed to move the contract to following season. If columbus could have, wouldn't they just have voided his contract? They couldn't so they agreed to have that contract slides.

Paul Ranger literally went to the team and asked for a leave of absence and he asked not to be paid.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Bonded

They sure could have made him report and terminate the contract if he didn’t.

Yes and he could report and be sidelined with his injury. Reporting to the team is literally just showing up. Doesn't mean he has to play.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I feel like most places don't give 18 months paid mental health leave either.

Flames 100% did the right thing...there is no debating that. But the fact is they didn't have to, and if they wanted to they likely could have found a way to no pay him during that absence.

But it's also not wrong to recognize the Flames did the right thing, while also saying that Kylington should have a level of gratitude and owes the Flames something due to that.

If my company gave me 18 months of paid mental health leave I certainly wouldn't come back to work and ask for a raise....but I also wouldn't expect them to cut my salary and give me a pay cut.

You can't void a contract due to mental health issues. Kylington didn't ask or choose to have those issues.

What the Flames did right was show compassion for what Kylington was going through and probably helped in any way they could.

His performance on the ice both now and in the past will determine his worth and length of his contract.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Nobody said they would void his contract. They definitely had the choice to not pay him.

Explain to me how they could get out of paying him?

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Nobody said they would void his contract. They definitely had the choice to not pay him.

People are saying the Flames could have not paid him. Name one situation where a team didn't have to live up to the contract because of mental health issues.

There are none. As long as the player reports they have to pay him. The Flames and Kylington agreed for him to stay away and get better.

If the Flames said we aren't paying you then he would have reported to the Flames and he would have just got paid that way by being unable to play from his mental health problems.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Supporting someone through a mental health challenge shouldn't come with "something owed" on the other side.
This is part of the way that we think about mental health that has to change.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

The Flames had to pay his contract. You can't void a contract for mental health issues.

Not sure why people keep repeating that like the Flames did it out of the goodness of their hearts.

The Flames could have easily tried to take the same path as Ranger and Texier and petitioned to the NHL to have his contract slide.

The Flames choose not to because I don't think they thought he'd miss the full season and thought he could return in 22-23, also why they didn't LTIR him until it was clear he wouldn't return.

Based on precedent the Flames could have investigated options to have the contract slide that season, they choose not to.

[FlamesAddiction]

The couldn't void his contract for mental health reasons, but they probably could have pressed the issue with the league to have the contract slide. In most industries, contracted workers don' get paid if they don't work unless they are injured on the job. Even in the NHL, if you get injured away from the rink, you may not get paid.

Honestly, I don't know how the NHL views mental health. Can someone cite an SPC or NHLPA source to show that players can take leaves of absence for mental health and the team has to pay them? Or is mental health considered a personal reason?

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The Flames could have easily tried to take the same path as Ranger and Texier and petitioned to the NHL to have his contract slide.

The Flames choose not to because I don't think they thought he'd miss the full season and thought he could return in 22-23, also why they didn't LTIR him until it was clear he wouldn't return.

Based on precedent the Flames could have investigated options to have the contract slide that season, they choose not to.

No they couldn't have unless Kylington agreed to it so again you keep repeating wrong information.

Texier agreed to it. The Flames could have tried but they need the player, nhl and nhlpa to agree to it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

No they couldn't have unless Kylington agreed to it so again you keep repeating wrong information.

Texier agreed to it. The Flames could have tried but they need the player, nhl and nhlpa to agree to it.

And you're 100% sure that Kylington was approached by the Flames and didn't agree to it?

The entire point is that it is something that is possible, there is precident for it..we don't know the details of if it was pushed for by the Flames or not, or if they even approached Kylington about it...but it is possible.

What it appears to me is that the Flames didn't push for it, and did the right thing and paid Kylington close to $4M to not play for the Flames over an 18 month period.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Supporting someone through a mental health challenge shouldn't come with "something owed" on the other side.
This is part of the way that we think about mental health that has to change.

The 'owe' (not my word and I don't think it's the right one - I used 'appreciate') has nothing to do with mental health, it is simply a function of the support provided by the Flames (which could have been for anything, not just mental health).

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

And you're 100% sure that Kylington didn't agree to it?

Flames could have went down that path if they choose to and pressure the player to do it. They didn't and did the right thing.

Considering the contract didn't toll then yeah I am 100% sure he didn't agree to it.

There is no prescdent. Literally not the same situation.

Also Texier was playing hockey the year he left for personal reasons. He was playing overseas so don't see how that is relevant anyways.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Considering the contract didn't toll then yeah I am 100% sure he didn't agree to it.

Also Texier was playing hockey the year he left for personal reasons. He was playing overseas so don't see how that is relevant anyways.

Did he not agree to it? Or did the Flames not push for it or even approach Kylington to do it?

Because those are very different things.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Did he not agree to it? Or did the Flames not push for it or even approach Kylington to do it?

Because those are very different things.

Either way, it doesn't matter. What difference does that make? If he was asked and said no then the Flames had to pay him. If they didn't ask then the Flames still had to pay him.

So you are wrong when you say the Flames could have not paid him.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The Flames could have easily tried to take the same path as Ranger and Texier and petitioned to the NHL to have his contract slide.

The Flames choose not to because I don't think they thought he'd miss the full season and thought he could return in 22-23, also why they didn't LTIR him until it was clear he wouldn't return.

Based on precedent the Flames could have investigated options to have the contract slide that season, they choose not to.

Just because they did the right thing doesn't mean they are owed anything for that. It just means they did the right thing. In fact, somehow if they suggested to Oliver that he did owe them something, it would no longer be handling it - in the right way.