[Rumour] Contract talks with Kylington progressing

[Enoch Root]

The other way that mental health is different is that an injury happens 'on the job'. Mental health is outside of hockey, so I very much think that the Flames' support of him has value.

[ResAlien]

Funny enough I disagree with that. Fans or the team expecting “loyalty” because they supported him during his mental health issues is bonkers. That’s no different than supportive a player while he rehabs from a physical injury. He owes the team nothing and to suggest otherwise feels slimy.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Because not all people think like that. Yet. And sounds like some teams don't either.

Some folks don't equate physical vs mental still.

That’s not an answer to the question. If someone wants to make a claim about why they think it’s different, go for it. I’d like to see it. “Some don’t think they are the same because they don’t think they’re the same”…. Okay. Why?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Funny enough I disagree with that. Fans or the team expecting “loyalty” because they supported him during his mental health issues is bonkers. That’s no different than supportive a player while he rehabs from a physical injury. He owes the team nothing and to suggest otherwise feels slimy.

I am not one to call loyalty and appreciation slimy. But that's just me.

[Enoch Root]

Also, I didn't say the team should 'expect' loyalty. IMO, Kylington should feel loyalty (I would), but I don't think the Flames should be banking on it.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The other way that mental health is different is that an injury happens 'on the job'. Mental health is outside of hockey, so I very much think that the Flames' support of him has value.

It can be. It can also be directly on ice related. Think Malarchuk, as an example. Or you know, just typical work burnout/employee employer disagreements/internal abuse, etc…. We have no idea what the players are dealing with unless they announce it, or it’s a gruesome injury live on TV.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I am not one to call loyalty and appreciation slimy. But that's just me.

I assume you’re being obtuse because to miss the point that the issue is with the expectation makes me wonder. Doing the right thing and expecting to be repaid for it isn’t doing the right thing it’s manipulation and pretty gross.

It’s no different than someone expecting to get laid because they paid for dinner. Cmon now this isn’t complicated to figure out.

He can be grateful all he wants but he owes the team nothing because of it. He doesn’t owe them a discount, he doesn’t owe them shorter term, he owes himself the right to get the contract he’s seeking. Hopefully that’s with Calgary but if it’s not then cest la vie

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Columbus seemed to figure out a way to get Texier off the cap and not pay him for his mental health issues when he didn't report to the team.

I have a feeling Flames could have found a similar route if they wanted to.

https://spectrumnews1.com/oh/columbu...m-blue-jackets

I am pretty sure when Paul Ranger took a personal leave for mental health reasons, the Lightning did not pay him either. What the Flames did was above and beyond and people need to remember that when they give Murray Edwards grief for being cheap.

I would be fine if the Flames give Kylington a multi-year deal, but I don't think it is unreasonable to stipulate that the contract slides if he needs to take more years away from the team.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

I assume you’re being obtuse because to miss the point that the issue is with the expectation makes me wonder. Doing the right thing and expecting to be repaid for it isn’t doing the right thing it’s manipulation and pretty gross.

It’s no different than someone expecting to get laid because they paid for dinner. Cmon now this isn’t complicated to figure out.

He can be grateful all he wants but he owes the team nothing because of it. He doesn’t owe them a discount, he doesn’t owe them shorter term, he owes himself the right to get the contract he’s seeking. Hopefully that’s with Calgary but if it’s not then cest la vie

Seriously?? LOL

I already responded to the main point in my other email. But the bolded....

[Braden]

I would be thrilled to see 5-6 years around 3 million

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

I assume you’re being obtuse because to miss the point that the issue is with the expectation makes me wonder. Doing the right thing and expecting to be repaid for it isn’t doing the right thing it’s manipulation and pretty gross.

It’s no different than someone expecting to get laid because they paid for dinner. Cmon now this isn’t complicated to figure out.

He can be grateful all he wants but he owes the team nothing because of it. He doesn’t owe them a discount, he doesn’t owe them shorter term, he owes himself the right to get the contract he’s seeking. Hopefully that’s with Calgary but if it’s not then cest la vie

He might not owe them anything technically but there is a lot of appreciation there. From what I have been told there is no rush to get a deal done because Oliver is only comfortable playing for the Flames, he doesn't want to play anywhere else and when you are just coming back from being in a dark place mentally you need to keep things as stable as you can. Even if it doesn't get done before July 1st I have no other expectation then that he will be back with the Flames regardless.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Seriously?? LOL

I already responded to the main point in my other email. But the bolded....

You guys email each other?

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I am pretty sure when Paul Ranger took a personal leave for mental health reasons, the Lightning did not pay him either. What the Flames did was above and beyond and people need to remember that when they give Murray Edwards grief for being cheap.

I would be fine if the Flames give Kylington a multi-year deal, but I don't think it is unreasonable to stipulate that the contract slides if he needs to take more years away from the team.

Paul Ranger requested a leave of absence and asked not to be paid.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I would be pissed at all involved if this doesn't happen...honestly the player owes some loyalty as long as they aren't trying to really squeeze him.

Gotta disagree with you, dino. Kylington was out for a legitimate reason and it's no different from if he had suffered an injury to his back, knee or head. Like with those injuries, he took time off to heal and when he was better, he came back and played. He doesn't owe the Flames anything. Neither side is in the wrong here for wanting to get the best deal for them.

[Yeah_Baby]

I'm really glad I don't work for some of you.

[#-3]

I've been kind of expecting something starting with a $3 x 3 years. Not sure if it is to the high end of low end of the range.

It's pay increase.

Gives the Flames a great contract looking with some term.

Gives Kylington a chance to get a real payday in his career if things stay on track, anything longer than 4 or 5 years would really hamper his ability to re-sign long term.

Not so long that it's a major impact on your long term planning if things go off the rails.


Just feels like a very neutral spot to land for what should be a friendlier than normal negotiation.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I'm really glad I don't work for some of you.

Most people don't work at places with guaranteed contracts that can last multiple years. Anything more than 2 years is a big risk.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Fire

Most people don't work at places with guaranteed contracts that can last multiple years. Anything more than 2 years is a big risk.

I feel like most places don't give 18 months paid mental health leave either.

Flames 100% did the right thing...there is no debating that. But the fact is they didn't have to, and if they wanted to they likely could have found a way to no pay him during that absence.

But it's also not wrong to recognize the Flames did the right thing, while also saying that Kylington should have a level of gratitude and owes the Flames something due to that.

If my company gave me 18 months of paid mental health leave I certainly wouldn't come back to work and ask for a raise....but I also wouldn't expect them to cut my salary and give me a pay cut.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I feel like most places don't give 18 months paid mental health leave either.

Flames 100% did the right thing...there is no debating that. But the fact is they didn't have to, and if they wanted to they likely could have found a way to no pay him during that absence.

But it's also not wrong to recognize the Flames did the right thing, while also saying that Kylington should have a level of gratitude and owes the Flames something due to that.

If my company gave me 18 months of paid mental health leave I certainly wouldn't come back to work and ask for a raise....but I also wouldn't expect them to cut my salary and give me a pay cut.

If you have short or long term disability, then you have that similar protection. Lots of places have this.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

If you have short or long term disability, then you have that similar protection. Lots of places have this.

Paid by the company or insurance?