Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

The Chinese EVs look really impressive. No surprise that was part of the driver for the US raising their EV import tarriff to 100%.

They definitely are. Their advancements have been so fast and the price points are so very affordable. I saw a BYD lower end model they have available for about $9K brand new. Definitely no bells or whistles, but from that video, it's a great option for a family not looking to go crazy with the higher end models.

[activeStick]

Found the video

https://twitter.com/user/status/1794222091719545225

[Fuzz]

Lol.

[Wormius]

Are the weird nerds out defending Musk?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

The Chinese EVs look really impressive. No surprise that was part of the driver for the US raising their EV import tarriff to 100%.

Even with 100% tariff, that’s still an amazing price for a car, unless it has disincentivized BYD from North American safety testing.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

The Chinese EVs look really impressive. No surprise that was part of the driver for the US raising their EV import tarriff to 100%.

I mean ...

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The problem isn't the tariffs, the tariffs are the solution to the problem.

So it turns out that the tariffs may not really solve the problem (may be more effective in North America, but still not as clear cut as though). A trade war is really going to hurt domestic producers too.

European car companies like BMW and Volkswagen rely on China for both reducing manufacturing costs of vehicles they sell in Europe, but China is also the largest vehicle market in the world and is a major market for their sales. GM's top sales market from 2010 to 2023 was actually China. China reciprocating tariffs will significantly affect cash flows and plans for these automakers through the EV transition.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/06/us-a...-in-china.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...source=twitter

It may still be the best way to keep domestic manufacturing jobs, but it's not pain free for sure

[Fuzz]

I dunno, I think their is a long trend of China abandoning western products as their domestic stuff improves. Look at Apple.


https://www.reuters.com/technology/a...ys-2024-03-05/


I think the western manufacturers need to really really understand the future market in China, and if they even want to bother. I'm not convinced the juice is worth the squeeze for many of them. China just has too many economic advantages they can leverage.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I dunno, I think their is a long trend of China abandoning western products as their domestic stuff improves. Look at Apple.


https://www.reuters.com/technology/a...ys-2024-03-05/


I think the western manufacturers need to really really understand the future market in China, and if they even want to bother. I'm not convinced the juice is worth the squeeze for many of them. China just has too many economic advantages they can leverage.

Their domestic stuff has improved so fast because Chinese companies can steal intellectual property as they please without worrying about any sort of legal consequences. I'm not sure why any western company would try to enter their market knowing that

[Fuzz]

Ya, I've heard stories of just how quickly your idea/invention/tooling gets replicated there. Zero shame.

[DoubleK]

The updated Model 3 looks pretty damn good.

[photon]

I like it, but I've always liked the understated look of Tesla. But it looks a little more generic to me now, that kind of snub nose look was distinctively Tesla.

[Sliver]

I know Tesla critiques are pretty cliché at this point, but they all look so NPC to me it's almost comical.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I know Tesla critiques are pretty cliché at this point, but they all look so NPC to me it's almost comical.

I'm still sorta surprised someone hasn't started mass producing stickers put on the front of a Tesla to make them look like a comical cartoon (pun intended) character.

[Street Pharmacist]

In all the talk of Electric Vehicle sales being super soft, EVs in Canada increased 53% yoy. Maybe it is more nuanced than the headlines suggest:

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...id-dcdis-24-25

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Their domestic stuff has improved so fast because Chinese companies can steal intellectual property as they please without worrying about any sort of legal consequences. I'm not sure why any western company would try to enter their market knowing that

With China developing as fast as they are, more cases like the one below will pop up where the roles are reversed, and it's the west copying China. Going to be interesting to see.

https://technode.com/2024/06/04/stan...anguage-model/

I found the talk below fascinating as well with Philipp Wong, Chief Scientist at TSMC and Professor of Electrical Engineering at Stanford University speaking about how China now leads the world in actually good scientific papers, but US is still leading in innovation or the creation of ideas from nothing, but the rest of the world seems to be better at taking that idea once published and applying it to other useful, better things. Fascinating to me that the US is so uniquely good at coming up with new ideas.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1793457614816494011

[indes]

Originally Posted by activeStick

With China developing as fast as they are, more cases like the one below will pop up where the roles are reversed, and it's the west copying China. Going to be interesting to see.

https://technode.com/2024/06/04/stan...anguage-model/

I found the talk below fascinating as well with Philipp Wong, Chief Scientist at TSMC and Professor of Electrical Engineering at Stanford University speaking about how China now leads the world in actually good scientific papers, but US is still leading in innovation or the creation of ideas from nothing, but the rest of the world seems to be better at taking that idea once published and applying it to other useful, better things. Fascinating to me that the US is so uniquely good at coming up with new ideas.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1793457614816494011

Its definitely interesting. It must be a culture thing no? I mean it sounds pretty stereotypical but China seems to have always excelled at optimization whereas the US has always been about 'dreaming' for lack of a better word.

[FLAMESRULE]

Originally Posted by indes

Its definitely interesting. It must be a culture thing no? I mean it sounds pretty stereotypical but China seems to have always excelled at optimization whereas the US has always been about 'dreaming' for lack of a better word.

"dreaming" = greed in my view. The American private equity/venture capital/family offices has no other equal anywhere else. They are hyper aggressive and willing to invest in very early stage "ideas" with the hope of them hitting big more than any other country. A few hit but most fail...and those hits create their own little ecosystems ("Bay Area" as an example), that continue to fuel early stage investment.

Most other countries rely on grants/government, I feel it's a massive advantage.

[Street Pharmacist]

Will be in need of a new vehicle soon and the local Ford dealership gave me a lightning to drive for 2 days. Good God that thing is a dream. The trouble for me is I don't have a trailer or a boat, and I spend about 14 minutes a day in my car. I can't justify $65,000 for a second vehicle. I can afford it, so telling myself no was incredibly tortuous. Being able to "afford" it is different than being able to "afford" it, you know what I mean?

[DoubleK]

Sure sounds like you need to buy it.

Stop being so reasonable and give in to a frivolous purchase.