The Legend of Sam Bennett

[Shazam]

Wasn't the stated reason Tre "had" to trade Bennett was because of the expansion draft and he would be left unprotected?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Wasn't the stated reason Tre "had" to trade Bennett was because of the expansion draft and he would be left unprotected?

Should never have gotten to that point. That's just another excuse to justify the failure of Sam Bennett as a Calgary Flame. There were times, when Monahan struggling because he was injured, and they could have played Sam Bennett but instead they played an injured Monahan. And I remember at the time even though Monahan was not effective and was really struggling they still went with him, instead of letting him heal up and recover.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Should never have gotten to that point. That's just another excuse to justify the failure of Sam Bennett as a Calgary Flame. There were times, when Monahan struggling because he was injured, and they could have played Sam Bennett but instead they played an injured Monahan. And I remember at the time even though Monahan was not effective and was really struggling they still went with him, instead of letting him heal up and recover.

That and Backlund is a 3C on a cup contender. If the goal is to win the cup, Bennett is the guy that should’ve been given the top 6 centre role. Just baffles my mind, highest pick in franchise history (centre no less) and he gets pushed down the lineup and cast into the shadows. That’s how you know the mandate from ownership isn’t winning cups, it’s squeaking into the playoffs.

[Jay Random]

Every time they tried Bennett on one of the top two lines, he did nothing, his linemates got worse, and he pretty much forced them to push him down the lineup. He simply wasn't ready for such a role.

The Bennett who is doing well in Florida right now didn't exist back then. He really should have had a year or two in the minors, but they started him in the NHL too young and burned his waiver exemption.

[Jaydee]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Every time they tried Bennett on one of the top two lines, he did nothing, his linemates got worse, and he pretty much forced them to push him down the lineup. He simply wasn't ready for such a role.

The Bennett who is doing well in Florida right now didn't exist back then. He really should have had a year or two in the minors, but they started him in the NHL too young and burned his waiver exemption.

except any time he played in the playoffs for us, or his first year

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Wasn't the stated reason Tre "had" to trade Bennett was because of the expansion draft and he would be left unprotected?

Nope.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jaydee

except any time he played in the playoffs for us, or his first year

You don't get playoff Bennett if you don't make the playoffs. Those teams weren't making the playoffs by using regular-season Bennett as a top-six centre.

Bennett played for the Flames for six full seasons. In that time, he never scored more than 36 points in a season. Backlund, over the same six seasons, never scored less than 45, and did it while facing opponents' top lines, killing penalties, getting a high percentage of defensive-zone starts, and often while mentoring a rookie on his line.

What would make any coach put Bennett higher up in the lineup than Backlund?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You don't get playoff Bennett if you don't make the playoffs. Those teams weren't making the playoffs by using regular-season Bennett as a top-six centre.

Bennett played for the Flames for six full seasons. In that time, he never scored more than 36 points in a season. Backlund, over the same six seasons, never scored less than 45, and did it while facing opponents' top lines, killing penalties, getting a high percentage of defensive-zone starts, and often while mentoring a rookie on his line.

What would make any coach put Bennett higher up in the lineup than Backlund?

I can remember times when Bennett was put on the top line and playing well a couple games and for no apparent reason they moved him right back down. Then there was Sam Bennett the top Flames player in the playoffs, fighting and sticking up for his teammates. Vintage playoff Sam Bennett. So they promised to reward him and move him up in the lineup and play him at center. What did they do? The very next season they moved him back down the lineup and even benched him without telling him why. The guy with no confidence gets to Florida, is stuck on the second line and he's been there ever since. So people said well it's because he was playing with Huberdeau, so Huberdeau gets traded while Bennett is still going strong. Sam said himself as soon as he got to Florida it was a happiest he'd ever been that tells you everything you need to know about how he felt playing Calgary. In short time under Sutter and then Florida he was scoring goals putting up points, but some kept putting him down as useless. It has been 2 years now and Sam Bennett is still playing fantastic for Florida and and is now one game away from the Stanley Cup.

[memphusk]

Sam ####ing Bennett. Go get yourself a cup son, you've earned it.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Every time they tried Bennett on one of the top two lines, he did nothing, his linemates got worse, and he pretty much forced them to push him down the lineup. He simply wasn't ready for such a role.

The Bennett who is doing well in Florida right now didn't exist back then. He really should have had a year or two in the minors, but they started him in the NHL too young and burned his waiver exemption.

When did he centre the top two lines?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

When did he centre the top two lines?

They tried him on Gaudreau's line a few times, both at C and RW, and he had zero chemistry there. He was tried with other combinations of skilled wingers as well, and nothing worked. At the time, he seemed to have a rare ability to make top wingers worse.

In retrospect, I firmly believe he should have had some AHL time learning to play a top-line role, but that 36-point rookie season convinced everyone he was fully NHL-ready. Instead, he puttered around as a bottom-six forward for years, and even in Florida he's never broken 50 points. On a line with Verhaeghe and Tkachuk, he is by far the weakest link – which is not what you want from a top-6 centre.

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I can remember times when Bennett was put on the top line and playing well a couple games and for no apparent reason they moved him right back down.

I can tell you the reason: Those lines didn't produce any offence.

Then there was Sam Bennett the top Flames player in the playoffs, fighting and sticking up for his teammates.

Whenever he tried to play that style in the regular season, he took stupid penalties.

The very next season they moved him back down the lineup and even benched him without telling him why.

I find it extremely hard to believe that they didn't tell him why. The reason was obvious: he played a style that was only effective if the referees put away their whistles. He had to break the rules to succeed.

It has been 2 years now and Sam Bennett is still playing fantastic for Florida

For values of ‘fantastic’ where he is by far the worst player on his line.

Florida has the luxury of carrying a passenger on the second line during the regular season. The Flames didn't.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

They tried him on Gaudreau's line a few times, both at C and RW, and he had zero chemistry there. He was tried with other combinations of skilled wingers as well, and nothing worked. At the time, he seemed to have a rare ability to make top wingers worse.

In retrospect, I firmly believe he should have had some AHL time learning to play a top-line role, but that 36-point rookie season convinced everyone he was fully NHL-ready. Instead, he puttered around as a bottom-six forward for years, and even in Florida he's never broken 50 points. On a line with Verhaeghe and Tkachuk, he is by far the weakest link – which is not what you want from a top-6 centre.



I can tell you the reason: Those lines didn't produce any offence.



Whenever he tried to play that style in the regular season, he took stupid penalties.



I find it extremely hard to believe that they didn't tell him why. The reason was obvious: he played a style that was only effective if the referees put away their whistles. He had to break the rules to succeed.



For values of ‘fantastic’ where he is by far the worst player on his line.

Florida has the luxury of carrying a passenger on the second line during the regular season. The Flames didn't.

Giving your highest ever draft pick a cup of coffee centring in the top 6 is not giving him a chance. There was absolutely no patience or foresight. Huge fail.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Giving your highest ever draft pick a cup of coffee centring in the top 6 is not giving him a chance. There was absolutely no patience or foresight. Huge fail.

Draft position shouldn't get any player a roster spot that he isn't capable of filling. Bennett never showed that he was a viable top-6 centre in Calgary. He's a marginal one in Florida.

Here are some players who have been drafted 4th overall in the last 20 years: Benoit Pouliot, Thomas Hickey, Griffin Reinhart, Jesse Puljujarvi. You're not getting an automatic star at that spot, and you're a fool (or an Oiler coach) if you think you can make a player into a star just by giving him a star's ice time.

Sam Bennett is a very good complementary player and a handy tool to have in your kit for the playoffs. He is not a star.

[memphusk]

He's also a legend.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

(Blah blah blah)

Florida has the luxury of carrying a passenger on the second line during the regular season. The Flames didn't.

The data is clear. He was on a line the first year with Backs and Frolik and in a blender once Tkachuk arrived.

The whole argument people have been making is that the potential was there and Calgary failed to develop it. The data has been sliced 6 ways from Sunday. Honestly, his production was actually fine in light of his deployment and stage of his development. People had expectations which weren’t commensurate with opportunity afforded,

Florida gave him a defined role and opportunity and he responded. Pretty much immediately

“Passenger.”

“Marginal”

Lol

He is now a 2C on a back to back cup finalist, and unless something really ridiculous happens, we will soon see that man with the glorious moustache hoist a cup

He missed 5 games out of 20. Barkov and Tkachuk play PP1 and have 20 and 21 points. Bennett has 13 pts in 15 games, so a 17 pt pace.


The guys on the NHL network did a segment analyzing what he’s doing well. Sportsnet has had multiple commentaries and analyses focused on him. Paul Maurice speaks about how he is an impact player

When are you going to lay down your sword? It’s based on feelings at this point, not logic


Were you guy lobbying to have the thread renamed from Sam Bennett being traded to “the legend of..”? How’s that working out for you

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Giving your highest ever draft pick a cup of coffee centring in the top 6 is not giving him a chance. There was absolutely no patience or foresight. Huge fail.

There was the 'never given, always earned' mantra. I get it, but you also need to have a plan to develop a premium asset. You drafted the guy at the top end of the draft because you believe he's got serious potential. Give him a shot, let him make mistakes, show some patience. Groom him. His first year was that, but then they seemed to lose the plot on how to develop him. Maybe he didn't do himself any favours but they should have cut him more than his fair share of slack to help him grow as a player.

Special treatment? Sure, but a top 4 pick is a special asset.

[dino7c]

Do we really need to fight about this again?

Guy is awesome in the playoffs, that style is impossible to play in the regular season and survive. That is why he has a 49 point career high despite looking dominant at times.

He is a factor in preventing an Oilers cup, draft pick well spent

/

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by edslunch

There was the 'never given, always earned' mantra. I get it, but you also need to have a plan to develop a premium asset. You drafted the guy at the top end of the draft because you believe he's got serious potential. Give him a shot, let him make mistakes, show some patience. Groom him. His first year was that, but then they seemed to lose the plot on how to develop him. Maybe he didn't do himself any favours but they should have cut him more than his fair share of slack to help him grow as a player.

Special treatment? Sure, but a top 4 pick is a special asset.

Funny enough, since you mentioned it, his development went sideways when the “always earned, never given” coach was turfed by the GM whose hallmark is paying 2 head coaches

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Draft position shouldn't get any player a roster spot that he isn't capable of filling. Bennett never showed that he was a viable top-6 centre in Calgary. He's a marginal one in Florida.

Here are some players who have been drafted 4th overall in the last 20 years: Benoit Pouliot, Thomas Hickey, Griffin Reinhart, Jesse Puljujarvi. You're not getting an automatic star at that spot, and you're a fool (or an Oiler coach) if you think you can make a player into a star just by giving him a star's ice time.

Sam Bennett is a very good complementary player and a handy tool to have in your kit for the playoffs. He is not a star.

It’s ok, you were/are flat out wrong about Sam Bennett too. Don’t worry, it’s a big club.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Draft position shouldn't get any player a roster spot that he isn't capable of filling. Bennett never showed that he was a viable top-6 centre in Calgary. He's a marginal one in Florida.

Here are some players who have been drafted 4th overall in the last 20 years: Benoit Pouliot, Thomas Hickey, Griffin Reinhart, Jesse Puljujarvi. You're not getting an automatic star at that spot, and you're a fool (or an Oiler coach) if you think you can make a player into a star just by giving him a star's ice time.

Sam Bennett is a very good complementary player and a handy tool to have in your kit for the playoffs. He is not a star.

No real hockey person gives a #### about counting stats. That is why Barkov can be considered a better center than Matthews by most people who understand the game. By almost any logical metric Bennett is one of the best second line centers in the league, blows a guy like Tavares out of the water IMO.