[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames, Devils reignite Markstrom trade talks (again); other teams interested

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by konradical

I remember in March, one of my friends who knows closely with Flames management did say the talked about Siegenthaler as a piece coming back in a trade at some point when he heard Markstrom trade gossip.

I'd take him just because his profile picture looks like Salt Bae.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Whomever is irate that the Flames 'aren't rebuilding' just need to go back halfway through the season and listen to Conroy's media scrums. I think he has been clear. Specifically go back and listen carefully when he was asked about his definitions about what a rebuild is and what a retool is. His 'retool' is a rebuild. The 'rebuild' was scorched-earth. He has been pretty clear that picks will only be traded for 23 and under players. He has stated that 'this will take some time'.


I will believe the words that continually come out of the mouth of the guy in charge, as well as the actions that he has thus far made since becoming the GM, over what Friedman or anyone else says. There is a lot of posturing going on as you would expect. Let's just take a deep breath and see what happens this month.

[Ba'alzamon]

I didn't think my flippant, off-hand comment would set off this kind of irritation. If I had I would have kept it to myself.

Good grief.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Ba'alzamon

I didn't think my flippant, off-hand comment would set off this kind of irritation. If I had I would have kept it to myself.

Good grief.

I think with written text, it’s harder to get context across. We largely agree with your original post, no worries.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Some of you would be the worst poker players, salesmen ever
relax, they SHOULD be acting like they don't need to or even want to trade Markstom

It's just incredible how many people bite on those types of comments.

Like what do people expect him to say? "Yeah, we are trading him no matter what - hopefully we get some good offers!"

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Come on man….




… I can’t believe this stupid franchise isn’t rebuilding…..

Every one of the players shipped out was a pending UFA. And they tried to sign at least two of them first.

Those are “we aren’t a playoff team this season” moves. They aren’t necessarily rebuild moves.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's just incredible how many people bite on those types of comments.

Like what do people expect him to say? "Yeah, we are trading him no matter what - hopefully we get some good offers!"

To be fair there’s not too much benefit of the doubt the Flames have earned on this. Cynicism is completely warranted based on the history of the franchise and this ownership group.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Some of you would be the worst poker players, salesmen ever
relax, they SHOULD be acting like they don't need to or even want to trade Markstom

They're playing hold 'em with their pocket cards facing up.

[topfiverecords]

Flames are only one piece away at every position on every line
from being a contender.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Every trade Conroy has made since Toffoli has been a rebuilding trade, I suspect his next trades will be as well. He definitely traded Zadorov and Lindholm early enough that he could have done retooling trades if he wanted but he didn’t. I just think the Flames (like every team not named the New York Rangers) are unwilling to publicly say they are rebuilding and not trying to win.

I agree with your post, but regarding the bolded part for all those that get so caught up whether the Flames say "retool" or "rebuild" versus what they actually do, here's a doozy.

Here's the press release the New York Rangers made.

https://www.nhl.com/rangers/news/a-m...team-295742648

As a member of the Blueshirt Faithful, we consider you a part of the New York Rangers family, and always want to ensure we share important news about the organization directly with you. Today, we want to talk to you about the future.

As you know, since the 2005-06 season, we have been a highly competitive team. We have played 129 playoff games, won the Presidents' Trophy, reached the Conference Finals three times, as well as the Stanley Cup Final. While we're proud of all those accomplishments - we didn't reach our ultimate goal of bringing the Stanley Cup back to New York.
So as we do every season, we have been continuously evaluating our team, looking for areas that can be improved to enhance our chances of winning. We began the process of reshaping our team this past summer, when we traded for assets that we believe will help us in the years to come. As we approach the trade deadline later this month and into the summer, we will be focused on adding young, competitive players that combine speed, skill and character. This may mean we lose some familiar faces, guys we all care about and respect. While this is part of the game, it's never easy. Our promise to you is that our plans will be guided by our singular commitment: ensuring we are building the foundation for our next Stanley Cup contender.
There are no fans like Rangers fans. You are passionate, loyal and true. You fill The Garden every night, and we always know there will be a strong showing from RangersTown in every building across the League. We do not take your support for granted. We appreciate that you have always stood by us, and we ask you to remain by our side as we undertake this exciting new chapter filled with promise and change.
We will keep you informed as this process takes shape. Thank you for the incredible loyalty, pride and respect you show to the New York Rangers, each and every day.

Nowhere did the Rangers say rebuild nor retool. They said "reshaping". God help us, now there's a 3rd word to argue about what the Flames are doing.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Flames are only one piece away at every position on every line
from being a contender.

Yes, the Flames just need a new majority owner. That's all. And maybe a conditional 6th round pick.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Come on man….




… I can’t believe this stupid franchise isn’t rebuilding…..

They were forced into every single one of those trades after they were rejected by nearly all of those players. Then the reality sets in that teams who want to acquire players like the ones we traded aren’t subtracting from their current rosters - yet, when the Flames could get “now” pieces, they made sure they did. Including Kuzmenko in the Lindholm trade and not flipping him negatively impacted the Flames draft position, as did not trading Markstrom, as did keeping Noah as long as they did and trying to sign him right up until the week before they were forced to trade him.

I think dismissing fan angst over the fact that the organization is doing everything possible to not rebuild through the top of the draft isn’t fair. Everything they do is in an attempt to not let a “losing culture” take hold, even though they own one of the strongest losing cultures in the league. Conroy has talked about this desire to not build a “losing culture” fairly openly, and that’s concerning because to me that’s not correctly assessing the current state.

The Flames may stop doing stupid stuff (like letting free agents walk), but that’s still a far way away from doing things well enough to establish any sort of “winning culture”.

If Friedman is right, and I have zero reason to think he’s wrong, then the Flames are continuing to operate with a similar philosophy to years gone by…and that’s just sad.

I hope Markstrom is gone within the next 16 days, and I really hope the return is based around futures.

[stemit14]

Most of us - including myself - have been assuming/predicting a trade that feels like an absolute win for the flames. Something like Markstrom (50% retained) for 10th overall. Which would be fantastic. However, trying to play devil’s advocate (no pun intended), I could see the devils pushing for something a little more - something we would all likely rather not give up. What if it’s something like this:

To Calgary: 10th overall + Casey
To New Jersey: Markstrom (50% retained) + Posposil

Who says no? How badly do we want 10th overall? Have really loved what Pospisil has turned into. He has brought a valuable quality to the team. But he plays dangerously and could be a risky player to bet on staying healthy with his style of play. Would really hate to lose him but I really want New Jersey’s first round pick this year.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

To be fair there’s not too much benefit of the doubt the Flames have earned on this. Cynicism is completely warranted based on the history of the franchise and this ownership group.

No #### and not to mention in the other thread we have a literal guy who is an insider (works for them?? Is involved in some manner?) saying they’re apparently interested in Laine which is idiotic. So no, no benefit of the doubt for this stuff for the Flames if they’re so afraid to *gasp* say they’re rebuilding. Oh the humanity what will we do! Nobody will buy tickets anymore!

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Thanks for the info. If its basically done, why not announce it now?

Are they still tinkering with the details? Or just waiting for the SCFs to be over?

Because it isn't.

[dino7c]

Flames could have signed Zadorov, Toffoli, and Lindholm if they were hell bent on it last Summer. They gave Lindholm a more than fair offer but wouldnt meet his demands. "They know what I want". The other two wanted term the Flames wouldnt give.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Every one of the players shipped out was a pending UFA. And they tried to sign at least two of them first.

Those are “we aren’t a playoff team this season” moves. They aren’t necessarily rebuild moves.

All were UFA and all forced the Flames hand by either requesting a trade or refusing to sign an extension. The options were get something or get nothing. They've done enough of getting nothing for UFAs recently. So pat on the back for doing the obvious this time around. I'm hopeful they will continue moving players out for futures over the next couple seasons. Where I'm unsure is if they're willing to bottom out, for how long, and how patient in general will they be.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames could have signed Zadorov, Toffoli, and Lindholm is they we hell bent on it last Summer. They gave Lindholm a more than fair offer but wouldnt meet his demands. "They know what I want"

So they stopped doing dumb things, which I suppose is worth celebrating.

But I’m not going to cheer them on because they ONLY offered Lindholm $8M a year, rather than the $8.5M or whatever he wanted. They still tried to do a stupid thing (extending Lindholm to an 8 year contract would have been a stupid move, even at $7M).

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

No #### and not to mention in the other thread we have a literal guy who is an insider (works for them?? Is involved in some manner?) saying they’re apparently interested in Laine which is idiotic. So no, no benefit of the doubt for this stuff for the Flames if they’re so afraid to *gasp* say they’re rebuilding. Oh the humanity what will we do! Nobody will buy tickets anymore!

Sec never says the Flames are interested. At least not in any post I read.
He says the player checks boxes of a player they could be interested in but doesn’t say they are or are not interested in him specifically

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

They were forced into every single one of those trades after they were rejected by nearly all of those players. Then the reality sets in that teams who want to acquire players like the ones we traded aren’t subtracting from their current rosters - yet, when the Flames could get “now” pieces, they made sure they did. Including Kuzmenko in the Lindholm trade and not flipping him negatively impacted the Flames draft position, as did not trading Markstrom, as did keeping Noah as long as they did and trying to sign him right up until the week before they were forced to trade him.

I think dismissing fan angst over the fact that the organization is doing everything possible to not rebuild through the top of the draft isn’t fair. Everything they do is in an attempt to not let a “losing culture” take hold, even though they own one of the strongest losing cultures in the league. Conroy has talked about this desire to not build a “losing culture” fairly openly, and that’s concerning because to me that’s not correctly assessing the current state.

The Flames may stop doing stupid stuff (like letting free agents walk), but that’s still a far way away from doing things well enough to establish any sort of “winning culture”.

If Friedman is right, and I have zero reason to think he’s wrong, then the Flames are continuing to operate with a similar philosophy to years gone by…and that’s just sad.

I hope Markstrom is gone within the next 16 days, and I really hope the return is based around futures.

The part that is a pet peeve for me, is yes it's annoying to have my childhood team run in this way, I feel like a hostage, but I can deal with that.

I can also deal with being on the front lines defending a team to rival fanbases that regularly lets me down more often than not with nothing in return.

But...the failure of the Flames organisation to build a marketable entertainment business that is a top employer in their sector getting heaped on the City of Calgary (climate, small market, can't hide from media in Canada, etc). Well that's the line. Sorry I don't want to work for RCR or CNRL either. That has nothing to do with the city or fans.

Why do I bring this up in a quote to this post. I agree they tried to do the opposite of every move that ended up occuring the past year, except Zadarov and Toffoli. So we're looking at a year that we're going to struggle, but they have had zero engagement with their fanbase to tell them what is going on. People in Calgary are smart, they'll figure it out quick that they're being lied too, and they'll stop showing up. That's on the ownership and the business behind the Flames, not on the city or fans.