[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames, Devils reignite Markstrom trade talks (again); other teams interested

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Of all the prospects in the Flames system, Pospisil is the one I would least like to move. He just had an amazing World Championships. He finally broke into the league and not only found a spot, but his underlying numbers are surprisingly good for a guy that doesn't put up a lot of points. He's one of those guys that is a difference maker for a team, and seems like he's just about to pop.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe he'll have another concussion and his career will be cut short, but the Flames invested time and resources into him, and I get the feeling that the investment is about to pay off.

Yup by having a surprise low rounder bring back a top ten? Not sure why everyone is married to pospisil?

Again like the player but considering the talent available at ten this is a deal a rebooling team does all day evey day.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

The Fitzegerald quote could easily be attributed to Conroy as well. I think the Flames would love to keep him for the same reasons.

He has value, so the return needs to be there.

Agreed. Just pointing out that Pospisil would be far from a throw-in.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Did you see his play at the Worlds?

Sometimes you need to consider being informed by what a player achieves outside of the opportunity you provide them

Did Calgary ever see Sam Bennett as a 2 C?

Mangiapane also had a good world championship and he now seems like a tweener.

I love pospisil but if you can sell high on a player with concussion issues I would happily let him walk for a nice package in return.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Mangiapane also had a good world championship and he now seems like a tweener.

I love Pospisil but if you can sell high on a player with concussion issues I would happily let him walk for a nice package in return.

I think it depends entirely on how the Flames view Pospisil.

Do they view him as a tweener/third liner who is replaceable?

Or someone who is just starting to reach his potential who might ultimately become part of the core?

Or more likely somewhere in between?

Those questions will ultimately decide whether they will trade him as a part of a package for 10 OA or not, and what value they attribute to him.

If they value him highly, and I think they well might, I can see them reluctant to add him to the Marky +28 OA package unless Mercer (along with 10 OA) was also coming back.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I think that some people here are overvaluing the 10th overall pick when they want to throw Pospisil in.

Here are the 10th overall picks from 2020-2000:
FP(5%):

Rantanen(2015)

P1/L1(20%):

Bouchard(2018), Tippett(2017), Nichushkin(2013), Brodin(2011)

P2/L2(10%):

Perfetti(2020), Frolik(2006)

P3/L3-4(35%):

Podkolzin(2019), Jost(2016), Ritchie(2014), Paajarvi(2009), Hodgson(2008), Kostitsyn(2003), Nystrom(2002)

RL(30%):

Koekkoek(2012), Mcllrath(2010), Ellerby(2007), Bourdon(2005),Valabik(2004), Backburn(2001)

Which means that the Flames would have a 65% chance to draft a player that's significantly worse than either Markstrom or Pospisil. You can even argue that I have Frolik, Brodin, and Tippett too high. That said there's a 1/4 chance to get a core player.

I'll take those odds all day every day for an opportunity to get a franchise altering player like Rantanen or even a Perfetti or Bouchard type of talent. I really don't see the point of using past failed players at any draft pick as that's simply the nature of the draft and why teams should load up on as many picks as possible to increase their odds of hitting. Pospisil is a nice looking player but the way he plays isn't conducive to a long career as he looks like a lesser version of Ferland who will have an equally short career. I don't think you just give him away as a throw-in but selling high on a player like this is prudent management.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Really like what Pospisil brings to the game, but he's 24 and is probably not in the long-plans for the team. The fact he's had six concussions and was contemplating quitting hockey because of them speaks volumes and clearly identifies a risk the Flames need to be weigh. If you can get a potential core piece out of a deal where Pospisil is moved you do it.

Frankly, the timing is right. His performance at the world championships may pump his value up. I hope the Flames recognize that success at the worlds rarely translates to long-term success in the NHL and they should not allow that to cloud their judgement. Think long-term and think about the assets you need to accrue. Pospisil is not a top end player and never will be. The Flames have a chance to make a deal for a player that could be a difference maker, they should do it.

Markstrom and Pospisil for #10? Take it and run, and I'm not someone who buys into the draft hype cycle.

[Funkhouser]

I agree with most folks here in I don't anticipate Pospisil having a long career (unfortunately) due to his concussion history and playing style. If he can secure you a future core piece, I am likely making the deal.

But he does have significant value and is far from a throw-in. I would argue he is the first player we have seen since Gaudreau that stirs the drink for the team. Their record was much better with him in the lineup. His linemates were much better with him. He can play up and down the lineup. He still has untapped potential (perhaps as a centre).
He sets the tone in terms of work ethic and could be a future leader.

He is absolutely a core piece if you think he can stay healthy.

[keenan87]

I would be more than happy with:
Markstrom (50% retained) for 10th OV

If they want Pospisil, I would throw him in too.

If the Flames can get 2 Top 10 picks in this draft, it will instantly expedite the rebuild. Especially if they can finish bottom 5 next season.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

I agree with most folks here in I don't anticipate Pospisil having a long career (unfortunately) due to his concussion history and playing style. If he can secure you a future core piece, I am likely making the deal.

But he does have significant value and is far from a throw-in. I would argue he is the first player we have seen since Gaudreau that stirs the drink for the team. Their record was much better with him in the lineup. His linemates were much better with him. He can play up and down the lineup. He still has untapped potential (perhaps as a centre).
He sets the tone in terms of work ethic and could be a future leader.

He is absolutely a core piece if you think he can stay healthy.

Exactly the problem. I give it about a ten percent chance he plays a full five years. Now for pospisils sake i hope im way off base, but he could be one concussion away from a dark room nevermind hockey. Six concussions is no joke.

[Toonage]

Pospisil's history and play style pretty much tell you what his future will look like and to be blunt its not good.

He plays a game that invites contact, but he won't (can't) fight so that will invite cheap shots or harder, even targeted hits.

He can dodge this for a while, but someone is going to catch him and he may only have one concussion left in him before he has to call it quits.

If NJD or another team wants to take that risk as part of a larger deal, you make that move.

[Saqe]

Pospisil will probably have to change his game at some point due to the injuries. The question then is can he still be an effective player, if there is anything salvageable from his game that makes him an effective player in the nhl. That's the real question.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Mangiapane also had a good world championship and he now seems like a tweener.

I love pospisil but if you can sell high on a player with concussion issues I would happily let him walk for a nice package in return.

Mangiapane had a very good season after the worlds, then decided once he got his contract that he wasn’t going to the hard places any more

I get the concern over concussion issues with Pospisil and am sure GMs around the league do as well

[Winsor_Pilates]

If we do Markstrom + Posp for #10; we're getting fleeced.
Classic case of underrating our own players because the team performance.

Trade Posp separately and actually get something of value or NJ would need to add.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Plenty here are seeing the forest.

You're obviously not getting the message

Again huh…

I understand what you’re saying. I’ve also noted to you that your train of thought depends on least two very big assumptions about the future where you claim certainty. Assuming such certainty about future unknowns is a weakness in your argument imo.

Continuing to post as if there is one true answer here is not objective.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

If we do Markstrom + Posp for #10; we're getting fleeced.
Classic case of underrating our own players because the team performance.

Trade Posp separately and actually get something of value or NJ would need to add.

Hard disagree. Markstrom isn't worth the the 10th overall by himself. Pospisil really comes down to how you view his upside and health. I think he is a bottom 6 guy that popped and he has a lot of injury concerns.
I think Pospisil is probably worth a second or something.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I think that some people here are overvaluing the 10th overall pick when they want to throw Pospisil in.

Here are the 10th overall picks from 2020-2000:
FP(5%):

Rantanen(2015)

P1/L1(20%):

Bouchard(2018), Tippett(2017), Nichushkin(2013), Brodin(2011)

P2/L2(10%):

Perfetti(2020), Frolik(2006)

P3/L3-4(35%):

Podkolzin(2019), Jost(2016), Ritchie(2014), Paajarvi(2009), Hodgson(2008), Kostitsyn(2003), Nystrom(2002)

RL(30%):

Koekkoek(2012), Mcllrath(2010), Ellerby(2007), Bourdon(2005),Valabik(2004), Backburn(2001)

Which means that the Flames would have a 65% chance to draft a player that's significantly worse than either Markstrom or Pospisil. You can even argue that I have Frolik, Brodin, and Tippett too high. That said there's a 1/4 chance to get a core player.

I would obviously be happy with the 10th overall pick as the return in a Markstrom trade, but the expectations from that pick here are extremely high. Nystrom was 10th, Baertschi was 13th, so was Coronato. IMO Pospisil is better than either of the 3 were/are.

Thank you.

This is why my preference would be to push to include the 28th instead of Pospisil. The historical list of 28th overalls versus pospisil looks probably even more in favour of pospisil.

If NJ says no to the 28th and insists on pospisil, then that tells you something. At that point flames management would need to push for more assets in return imo.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Thank you.
If NJ says no to the 28th and insists on pospisil, then that tells you something. At that point flames management would need to push for more assets in return imo.

It just means they want a roster player and not another draft pick. I wouldn't want to trade a first for Pospisil if I was a fan of another team.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

I agree with most folks here in I don't anticipate Pospisil having a long career (unfortunately) due to his concussion history and playing style. If he can secure you a future core piece, I am likely making the deal.

But he does have significant value and is far from a throw-in. I would argue he is the first player we have seen since Gaudreau that stirs the drink for the team. Their record was much better with him in the lineup. His linemates were much better with him. He can play up and down the lineup. He still has untapped potential (perhaps as a centre).
He sets the tone in terms of work ethic and could be a future leader.

He is absolutely a core piece if you think he can stay healthy.

I like the player, but he and Zary had a lot of puck luck this year, and are unlikely to repeat ... 1st and 2nd on the team for actual goal results vs expected five on five.

That can happen with elite elite talent year over year, but I'm guessing it averages out for both players.

Pospisil is a great story, and a good player, but he'll never be core in my estimation.

Middle six, and likely third line. Provide energy. Drag his team into the fight.

[Robbob]

Yeah, I think I would rather keep the 28th pick and have Pospisil as the sweetener.

[howard_the_duck]

Has Pospisil been linked to the Devils, or is this all speculation?