[Kent Wilson Article] “self-satisfied mediocrity”

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

The one thing I do disagree with is that he thinks that anyone is satisfied with mediocrity. The fans aren’t, management isn’t, ownership isn’t, the media isn’t etc.

If making the second round twice in 20 years isn't mediocrity, I don't know what is.

It's been 10+ years since the Flames made the playoffs in consecutive seasons, the bubble doesn't count.

Edmonton is no good. The Flames are worse.

[iggyloob12]

“I cannot, at this juncture, conjure much animosity towards the Oilers and their fans.”
He lost me right there.

[troutman]

32 team league that is stacked against Canadian teams. Tough tough job.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Hes acting like this was the plan by Edmonton. They tried to compete but they just sucked, and their draft picks sucked.

They still suck, look at that roster. They are literally being carried by a once in a lifetime offensive talent, and playing some of the worst competition the west has seen in a long time.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

We don't need Edmonton to win, Florida and Colorado were rebuilding at the same time as Edmonton. Florida is another case of a team being at the bottom for around 5 years and now are having sustained success because of it. Edmonton would get the owners attention more so than Florida, but just being in the finals has to get their attention.

Oh ho ho my young friend, that's simply not the case. It was much, much longer.

The reality is that bottoming out can lead to success, but it is an excruciatingly long road to get there.

Since 1996, the famous year they went to the finals, until about 2021, when the current version of the team took form, the Panthers had a total of 6 seasons where they cleared the 90 point threshold. 6 years out of 25, most of those were spaced 5-10 years apart.

The reality of the Panthers of the past was a team that didn't do even a little bit to commit to winning. They were happy to simply exist in the league, drawing just enough revenue to keep afloat and maintain the asset for ownership. It was baaaaad, bad bad bad, for a long time here. You could call it self-satisfied abysmal-ness.

I think my point is that the Panthers got good when a new owner came in and fully committed to building a winning team, regardless of the cost. He probably lost some money in the first couple years, but spent it on good management and operations people. That translated to some on-ice success, but it really was impactful in the off-ice stuff to build an actual fanbase and ticket sales. They built a culture and identity with their fans, and now it's an actual thing to be a Florida Panthers fan down here, whereas before it was only for the die-hards.

When I became a fan, I got hooked in because of the high draft picks like Ekblad and Barkov etc. But it still has taken over a decade to get to this point, and really, they only took off recently.

There is no easy road to success, but the one thing I know for sure that gets a team there is good management. I don't know if we have that yet in Conroy, but I'm hopeful that he's at least above average. Treliving had some great qualities and some absolute dog#### qualities as a GM, which makes him average overall, and he was a big reason why a team that drafted well and had a lot of great pieces in place, couldn't get over the hump.

Your team building starts with ownership committed to winning, then you need really good managers to execute a clear vision. Mostly it flows from there...management works on drafting and team building, finance and cap management, community outreach and fan-base building etc.

I think the flames have a lot of those things in place already. I think that ownership is committed to winning, but only on their terms, which could be a problem without a good GM in place. I simply hope that Craig is that guy. He had a good start, but now we need to see him actually build his vision of a team. Fingers crossed...it's going to take some time to be good again.

[Two Fivenagame]

Fully agree with everything in the article.
C=NG

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by troutman

32 team league that is stacked against Canadian teams. Tough tough job.

And what exactly did Edmonton do that was so smart? The only thing that separates them from other bottom feeding clubs that haven't achieved much is that they fluked out and got a generational player.
And now Chicago is going to do it.

For me this is less about Edmonton, and more about what sports has turned into. Edmonton has made more bad decisions than good ones. Their fortunes changed on the luck of a ball.

I have admiration for smartly run organizations like Dallas and Carolina that seem to make better decisions, more often, than most of the league.

But that doesn't translate into championships.

I would love to see some sort of system where the draft order is set by winning % by eliminated teams, once eliminated. I realize that's complex, but the current incentives stink and don't reward competing or making smart decisions. It rewards failure.

That kind sucks in my mind.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

And what exactly did Edmonton do that was so smart? The only thing that separates them from other bottom feeding clubs that haven't achieved much is that they fluked out and got a generational player.
And now Chicago is going to do it.

For me this is less about Edmonton, and more about what sports has turned into. Edmonton has made more bad decisions than good ones. Their fortunes changed on the luck of a ball.

I have admiration for smartly run organizations like Dallas and Carolina that seem to make better decisions, more often, than most of the league.

But that doesn't translate into championships.

I would love to see some sort of system where the draft order is set by winning % by eliminated teams, once eliminated. I realize that's complex, but the current incentives stink and don't reward competing or making smart decisions. It rewards failure.

That kind sucks in my mind.

That is the worst about this run by Edmonton and listen to the media soil themselves.

The Oilers are terribly run organization, the media and fans called for Hollands head all season, even last year. They literally fluked into McDavid after TRYING to compete, and all of a sudden they are amazing.

Not to mention they got rewarded a 4th time for being incompetent.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Because his actual actions point in the exact direction people want him to go, and instead of focusing on that, people write long winded missives about not being told what they want to hear and the sorry state of the franchise.

There used to be a saying, ‘Actions speak louder than words.’

The whole world seems to have forgotten it. Millions of people will take a person's words at face value even when his actions scream the opposite.

Conroy could trade every player on the roster for picks, and some people would still be unhappy because he didn't actually use the word ‘rebuild’.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

While that's obvious sarcasm pointed directly at people who are unhappy with constantly missing the playoffs while drafting outside the top 5... it at least sounds like a better plan than what Calgary's done post '89.

If you think it sounds like a plan at all, you need to get your hearing checked.

It is most certainly not a better plan than what any team has ever done. The worst plan in the world, if it actually is a plan, is better than pretending you can win by wishing hard enough for it.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

And what exactly did Edmonton do that was so smart? The only thing that separates them from other bottom feeding clubs that haven't achieved much is that they fluked out and got a generational player.

This is the thing that gets me. Not only did they suck so bad that they got the #1 pick, that WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH...and they had to screw it up and keep sucking three more times before they finally lucked into a player who has dragged them to the Finals. They can't even tank/pick/rebuild properly.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Oh ho ho my young friend, that's simply not the case. It was much, much longer.

The reality is that bottoming out can lead to success, but it is an excruciatingly long road to get there.

Since 1996, the famous year they went to the finals, until about 2021, when the current version of the team took form, the Panthers had a total of 6 seasons where they cleared the 90 point threshold. 6 years out of 25, most of those were spaced 5-10 years apart.

The reality of the Panthers of the past was a team that didn't do even a little bit to commit to winning. They were happy to simply exist in the league, drawing just enough revenue to keep afloat and maintain the asset for ownership. It was baaaaad, bad bad bad, for a long time here. You could call it self-satisfied abysmal-ness.

I think my point is that the Panthers got good when a new owner came in and fully committed to building a winning team, regardless of the cost. He probably lost some money in the first couple years, but spent it on good management and operations people. That translated to some on-ice success, but it really was impactful in the off-ice stuff to build an actual fanbase and ticket sales. They built a culture and identity with their fans, and now it's an actual thing to be a Florida Panthers fan down here, whereas before it was only for the die-hards.

When I became a fan, I got hooked in because of the high draft picks like Ekblad and Barkov etc. But it still has taken over a decade to get to this point, and really, they only took off recently.

There is no easy road to success, but the one thing I know for sure that gets a team there is good management. I don't know if we have that yet in Conroy, but I'm hopeful that he's at least above average. Treliving had some great qualities and some absolute dog#### qualities as a GM, which makes him average overall, and he was a big reason why a team that drafted well and had a lot of great pieces in place, couldn't get over the hump.

Your team building starts with ownership committed to winning, then you need really good managers to execute a clear vision. Mostly it flows from there...management works on drafting and team building, finance and cap management, community outreach and fan-base building etc.

I think the flames have a lot of those things in place already. I think that ownership is committed to winning, but only on their terms, which could be a problem without a good GM in place. I simply hope that Craig is that guy. He had a good start, but now we need to see him actually build his vision of a team. Fingers crossed...it's going to take some time to be good again.

Meh, even with all those things it can take many years.

I'm okay with that.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Because his actual actions point in the exact direction people want him to go, and instead of focusing on that, people write long winded missives about not being told what they want to hear and the sorry state of the franchise.

What other team trades their top two forwards, top defensive pairing, and prepares to trade their #1 goaltender with no bonafide solution behind them… and still isn’t “tearing it down”?

What does tearing it down look like vs what the Flames have done? I’m genuinely asking. Is it just that they’re also collecting young players on the cheap that are better than their AHL guys?

They've sold off their expiring contracts for assets which is very good (even though they wanted to sign most of those guys first). But time and time again they've stated they have no intention of a full tear down rebuild and want to remain competitive. Which flies in the face of embracing a painful few years to get high end draft picks which could yield truly elite players, as the article is outlining. They could by lying I guess.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Igottago

They've sold off their expiring contracts for assets which is very good (even though they wanted to sign most of those guys first). But time and time again they've stated they have no intention of a full tear down rebuild and want to remain competitive. Which flies in the face of embracing a painful few years to get high end draft picks which could yield truly elite players, as the article is outlining. They could by lying I guess.

In other words, their actions are all pointing in the direction of a full rebuild, but you choose to ignore that and believe their words instead.

This is exactly what I've been going on about.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

In other words, their actions are all pointing in the direction of a full rebuild, but you choose to ignore that and believe their words instead.

This is exactly what I've been going on about.

But Conroy said playoffs are the goal.

He brought in Miramanov and Kuzmenko to build around.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

But Conroy said playoffs are the goal.

He brought in Miramanov and Kuzmenko to build around.

Again, words over actions.

He brought in Miromanov and Kuzmenko because their teams were throw them in just to get rid of them, and he thinks they're worth something. And much as it continually seems to surprise some fans, you are legally required to ice a roster for both your NHL and AHL games.

Would you prefer he had made the Lindholm and Hanifin for the exact same packages of futures, but without Kuzmenko and Miromanov? I mean, making a worse trade would make the team suck harder, and that's the purpose of the game, right?

[Eb0la11]

The key piece to the rebuild is already in place. We ain’t winning **** with Huberdeau at that salary. Here’s to 7 more years of sucking.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

In other words, their actions are all pointing in the direction of a full rebuild, but you choose to ignore that and believe their words instead.

This is exactly what I've been going on about.

You've been going on about nonsense like the economic conditions of 1993 meaning the Flames cannot ever be a good team and have no agency, so just be glad they didn't move to Houston, or something.

Their actions thus far are only an indication of offloading expiring contracts, which I'm giving Conroy full credit for. The commitment to embracing some tough seasons for very high draft picks has yet to be seen. We know the organization his resistance towards that idea.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Igottago

You've been going on about nonsense like the economic conditions of 1993 meaning the Flames cannot ever be a good team and have no agency, so just be glad they didn't move to Houston, or something.

That's not what I said at all. I said that RIGHT NOW, even with the salary cap, many players don't wish to play in Canada (and have contract clauses to enforce that wish), and small markets have less revenue capacity than big ones. Calgary is a small-market Canadian team and will always operate at a disadvantage.

1993 has absolutely nothing to do with it. Stop lying about what I'm saying and read my goddamn posts.

Their actions thus far are only an indication of offloading expiring contracts. The commitment to embracing some tough seasons for very high draft picks has yet to be seen.

So in other words, you're going to ignore all their actions until they do something you can't ignore.

I'd hate to work for you. I could slave away my whole life without ever getting credit for anything.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Igottago

You've been going on about nonsense like the economic conditions of 1993 meaning the Flames cannot ever be a good team and have no agency, so just be glad they didn't move to Houston, or something.

Their actions thus far are only an indication of offloading expiring contracts, which I'm giving Conroy full credit for. The commitment to embracing some tough seasons for very high draft picks has yet to be seen. We know the organization his resistance towards that idea.

Picks and prospects and prospects that are probably even NHL ready yet tell me they are embracing the suck.

They almost traded Markstrom.

The only troubling thing so far has been the interest in Necas.