The Legend of Sam Bennett

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Bertuzzied has been the biggest clown on this forum for nearly 20yrs. It's impressive, really.

He he he

[KelVarnsen]

Pro tip

This message is hidden because Johnny Makarov is on your ignore list.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

It’s painful to think about what could have been had we brought in a real coach at the time instead of gulutzan.

Gulutzan probably gets too much blame - especially when it comes to Bennett.

Peters and mostly Ward had more to do with Bennett's struggles in Calgary than Gulutzan IMO

Gulutzan actually tried to play Bennett at center in 16-17 with some veterans to support him and it just didn't work out according to the management group.

16-17: Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer / Chiasson - Bennett - Gaudreau / Versteeg - Bennett - Chiasson

Then in 17-18 the line of Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway found some success when people were calling for him to be moved back to the wing and they stuck with that.

Really it was under Ward that things really fell off.

The real issue was the Flames not hiring a real coach instead of keeping Geoff Ward going into the 20-21 season. Trajectory of this team potentially looks much different if they hired somebody else that offseason.

[Badgers Nose]

These threads make me want to cry and vommit. Like hard core dry wrenching and then curl up in a whimpering ball of despair (if you know you know).

Bring on the draft and free agency. Get this farce of a playoffs over with already.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Gulutzan probably gets too much blame - especially when it comes to Bennett.

Peters and mostly Ward had more to do with Bennett's struggles in Calgary than Gulutzan IMO

Gulutzan actually tried to play Bennett at center in 16-17 with some veterans to support him and it just didn't work out according to the management group.

16-17: Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer / Chiasson - Bennett - Gaudreau / Versteeg - Bennett - Chiasson

Then in 17-18 the line of Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway found some success when people were calling for him to be moved back to the wing and they stuck with that.

Really it was under Ward that things really fell off.

The real issue was the Flames not hiring a real coach instead of keeping Geoff Ward going into the 20-21 season. Trajectory of this team potentially looks much different if they hired somebody else that offseason.

Outside of Johnny those are terrible wingers anyways.

He was supposed to play with Chucky and Brouwer but that never happened.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Pro tip

Still bitter I made fun of your sewage water city... lol

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Gulutzan probably gets too much blame - especially when it comes to Bennett.

Peters and mostly Ward had more to do with Bennett's struggles in Calgary than Gulutzan IMO

Gulutzan actually tried to play Bennett at center in 16-17 with some veterans to support him and it just didn't work out according to the management group.

16-17: Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer / Chiasson - Bennett - Gaudreau / Versteeg - Bennett - Chiasson

Then in 17-18 the line of Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway found some success when people were calling for him to be moved back to the wing and they stuck with that.

Really it was under Ward that things really fell off.

The real issue was the Flames not hiring a real coach instead of keeping Geoff Ward going into the 20-21 season. Trajectory of this team potentially looks much different if they hired somebody else that offseason.

The big problem is that all of Gulutzan, Peters, and Ward were terrible coaching hires.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Gulutzan probably gets too much blame - especially when it comes to Bennett.

Peters and mostly Ward had more to do with Bennett's struggles in Calgary than Gulutzan IMO

Gulutzan actually tried to play Bennett at center in 16-17 with some veterans to support him and it just didn't work out according to the management group.

16-17: Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer / Chiasson - Bennett - Gaudreau / Versteeg - Bennett - Chiasson

Then in 17-18 the line of Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway found some success when people were calling for him to be moved back to the wing and they stuck with that.

What are you talking about?

Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer was atrocious line construction. Two guys who played with zero pace flanking a center who needs linemates that play fast. And Bennett wasn't the only center who was useless with those two flanking him - struggled equally in that case. Only Stajan ever really clicked with those two, which made sense as he was playing a slow game at that point himself.

Chiasson-Bennett-Gaudreau didn't even play together much. And either way, Chiasson-Monahan-Gaudreau was a failed line so swapping centers and then blaming Bennett's play at center for the failing of that line was exactly the kind of issue Gulutzan was guilty of.

Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway was a terrible line and set Bennett back years. The only people saying Bennett should have been moved to wing were the people blinded by Gulutzan's atrocious usage of Bennett as a center.

Recall that I made this thread back in 2018 when Gulutzan was coach:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=170857

And for all the flack Ward deservedly gets for moving Bennett to the wing after he was so successful centering Dube and Lucic in the 2020 playoffs, Gulutzan did the EXACT same thing because Bennett (equally to Monahan) was our best player in the 2017 playoffs as a center. That he found himself on the wing at all the following year was brutal coaching, no getting around it.

Really it was under Ward that things really fell off.

No, it fell off under Gulutzan, and by the time Peters and Ward took over Bennett had been typecast as a bottom six energy winger. Which is actually the same role Sutter used him as, before people start saying Bennett was playing better under Sutter.

Even going from his rookie season under Hartley to his sophomore season under Gulutzan, we saw Bennett's icetime drop:

Even Strength
13:08 vs 12:37
PP
1:57 vs 1:13

Despite being a second year player who typically see an uptick in their icetime now that they have adjusted to the league.

It's pretty likely that if Joel Quennville had not moved Bennett to a 2C position, that typecasting caused by Gulutzan would have permeated over to his time in Florida. Quennville was the first coach since Bob Hartley to have used Bennett correctly, and essentially turned Bennett's career around. Hartley doesn't quite get a free pass as he did use Bennett at wing for part of his rookie year, but Bennett was playing center exclusively towards the end of the year. In Hartley's defense though this was a rookie.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

What are you talking about?

Was the problem Gulutzan though...or just that we didn't have enough NHL talent on the wing at the time?

Gaudreau - Monahan were a thing

Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik were great.

The problem was the Brouwer signing was terrible and the guy brought in to mentor Bennett and be his winger was a terrible player.

And Bennett-Jankowski-Hathaway worked...it didn't really benefit the development of Bennett but those three had decent results and a 56% xGF when they played together that season.

It was probably the best Bennett looked outside of playing on Backlund's wing in his rookie season. And once again it's a problem with the team trying to win too soon, they prioritized immediate results instead of what was best for the development of guys like Bennett and Tkachuk.

But at the time he was still only 21 which meant he still had lots of room to develop. And a better coach "like coach Q" could have figured it out.

Plus Those seasons under Gulutzan his actual play was still good. I remember having a discussion about how he was ready to break out because his underlying chance generation numbers were great. Think we were on the same side of being Bennett supporters.

His actual play as a Flame didn't fall off until the 19-20 season, and then the start of the 20-21 season with Ward. His numbers and underlying stats were legitimately bad in his time with Ward as coach.

Maybe Gulutzan set the table, but in the end it was Ward that drove the nail in the coffin.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Was the problem Gulutzan though...or just that we didn't have enough NHL talent on the wing at the time?

Gaudreau - Monahan were a thing

Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik were great.

The problem was the Brouwer signing was terrible and the guy brought in to mentor Bennett and be his winger was a terrible player.

And Bennett-Jankowski-Hathaway worked...it didn't really benefit the development of Bennett but those three had decent results and a 56% xGF when they played together that season.

It was probably the best Bennett looked outside of playing on Backlund's wing in his rookie season. And once again it's a problem with the team trying to win too soon, they prioritized immediate results instead of what was best for the development of guys like Bennett and Tkachuk.

But at the time he was still only 21 which meant he still had lots of room to develop. And a better coach "like coach Q" could have figured it out.

Plus Those seasons under Gulutzan his actual play was still good. I remember having a discussion about how he was ready to break out because his underlying chance generation numbers were great.

His actual play as a Flame didn't fall off until the 19-20 season, and then the start of the 20-21 season with Ward. His numbers and underlying stats were legitimately bad in his time with Ward as coach.

Maybe Gulutzan set the table, but in the end it was Ward that drove the nail in the coffin.

There wasn’t much for Quenville to figure out. Have Bennett centre in the top 6 and leave him there. It was as obvious then as it is now.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Why wouldn't we? he was the biggest derp in the league when he was here. King Derp compared to Taylor Hall.

Sure he is great in the playoffs but you have to make it to the playoffs first. He didn't help at all in Calgary. In fact you could say with his play, he was actively trying to help us miss it every year!

So you're in this thread because you're upset the people like Sam Bennett?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

I love everything about the way him and Tkachuk play and hope they win a cup.

Pretty crazy as a hardcore Flames fan that I'd be actively cheering for a superstar and star player that are leading their team to back to back playoff runs that were traded for here.

Amazing players, our team sucks so bad. We blew a very special opportunity with bad management and coaching hires. Just brutal. Very happy for Tkachuk and Bennett, though. It's fun to watch them.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The older I get, the more I realize how unserious a team the Flames are.

Who would have thought, an oil exec in charge of everything, things not turning out all that great...

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Who would have thought, an oil exec in charge of everything, things not turning out all that great...

Huh. You mean a team owner that spends to the cap every year? I get that its been bad but the last GM low balled his home grown and then paid strangers. Calgary could have way worse ownership.

[Rhett44]

It wouldn't matter if we kept him, we never would have seen this level of play. Our coaches tried to ruin him.

Every time Bennett and Tkachuk are on the ice together the last couple playoffs, they seen to be dominating most of the time.

Now we are left with scraps, while Florida has two of the best playoff performers in the league that we traded them.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

It wouldn't matter if we kept him, we never would have seen this level of play. Our coaches tried to ruin him.

Every time Bennett and Tkachuk are on the ice together the last couple playoffs, they seen to be dominating most of the time.

Now we are left with scraps, while Florida has two of the best playoff performers in the league that we traded them.

Sunrise started shining when they traded Huberdeau away.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Sunrise started shining when they traded Huberdeau away.

There was a lot of talk about Huberdeau being the ring leader for why the Panthers struggled in the playoffs. When they were down 3-0 in a series, he was rumored to have been partying it up in a strip club an hour after the loss.

Maybe it is true, maybe it isn't. But there is no doubt in my mind Tkachuk completely changed the culture of that team last year.

You remember the whole thing where some of our leaders told him not to stir things up and care so much about one regular season game? That's just Flames things, country club culture and Bennett/Tkachuk are thriving playing with a team full of players who want to win.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

There was a lot of talk about Huberdeau being the ring leader for why the Panthers struggled in the playoffs. When they were down 3-0 in a series, he was rumored to have been partying it up in a strip club an hour after the loss.

Maybe it is true, maybe it isn't. But there is no doubt in my mind Tkachuk completely changed the culture of that team last year.

You remember the whole thing where some of our leaders told him not to stir things up and care so much about one regular season game? That's just Flames things, country club culture and Bennett/Tkachuk are thriving playing with a team full of players who want to win.

Agreed. Loser mentality. I wasn't a huge Giordano fan .

[Manhattanboy]

The idea of Bennett pounding away on Dry Cycle is intriguing.

[The Cobra]

When Fleury came into the league management complained he wasn’t passing enough.

Mystery IIRC, HE was playing with Jim Peplinski and Tim Hunter.