Do you trade Rasmus Andersson this summer?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The Flames D is already bottom of the league with Rasmus, without him it is downright awful maybe the worst in the NHL. With Andersson he only have 3 NHL D men. What happens if Weegar gets hurt, or Kyllington needs another year away?

I say Trade Markstom, Mangiapane and Kuzmenko. But leave the D alone unless someone proves next year that Andersson is replaceable.

There are a tonne of UFA dmen. If the Flames think that their young dmen are a year or two away they could sign a couple of those dmen to short term contracts with high dollar value to entice them to come and have a serviceable D-core.

You could easily move Rasmus out and sign two of Tanev, Myers, Dillon, Cole, Forbort, Barrie to one or two year contracts in the 5 million a year range and have a serviceable dman. Not many teams are going to give that 32-35 year old dman group 4 or 5 year contracts.

If it actually meant you got a stud young cost controlled piece for Anderson you do it every day. If the team moved out Anderson and Markstrom and even retained 3 million on Markstrom to make the return better they would have about 28 million bucks to spend on 6 players. You could blow your brains out on one or two year deals for two veteran dmen and still have money left over.

A hypothetical dcore of

Miromanov - Weegar
Kylington - Myers
Forbort - Pachal
Hanley - Okhokutuk

Ain’t great but it is not awful either, it would definitely be serviceable.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

There are a tonne of UFA dmen. If the Flames think that their young dmen are a year or two away they could sign a couple of those dmen to short term contracts with high dollar value to entice them to come and have a serviceable D-core.

You could easily move Rasmus out and sign two of Tanev, Myers, Dillon, Cole, Forbort, Barrie to one or two year contracts in the 5 million a year range and have a serviceable dman. Not many teams are going to give that 32-35 year old dman group 4 or 5 year contracts.

If it actually meant you got a stud young cost controlled piece for Anderson you do it every day. If the team moved out Anderson and Markstrom and even retained 3 million on Markstrom to make the return better they would have about 28 million bucks to spend on 6 players. You could blow your brains out on one or two year deals for two veteran dmen and still have money left over.

Could add Dumba to that list too. I’m sure there are others as well.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

If you want a burn it down 10+ yr rebuild, yes.

Otherwise it’s nuckin futs.

No one can replace him and maybe you get a pick and a prospect. Chances are neither ever play.

I don't get this. Andersson is not going to be a core piece of a contending Flames team.

The reason to trade him is to speed up the rebuild by collecting assets who may be part of the core going forward.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I don't get this. Andersson is not going to be a core piece of a contending Flames team.

The reason to trade him is to speed up the rebuild by collecting assets who may be part of the core going forward.

Exactly this. Not saying both these trades could happen but I think individually they could each happen.

Trade 1
Anderson and a 3rd to Ottawa for the 7th overall

Logic for Ottawa is they really want to rebalance their defence and get two strong RD to go with Chabot and Sanderson. If they think they can trade Chychrun for a mid 1st and two seconds (or equivalent) they could well think that switching those two dmen out for the next two years and trading 7 for a mid first, two seconds and a 3rd is worth it for how it improves their team for the next two years. They definitely view themselves as a team that should be in the playoffs, they may well see the value in those two transactions because I don’t see them trading Chyrchrun for futures and not getting a RD back and the RD back has to be cheap because they only have 16.7 million (if they trade Chychrun) to sign 8 players including Pinto and a top 4 RD. So they probably do not want to spend more than 4.5 million on a RD given their cap restrictions. Those cost parameters for their RD would leave them about 9-10 million for 6 players (one dman and 5 forwards)

Trade 2
Markstrom (50% retained) and a 3rd for the Devils 10th overall.

They need a goalie, Markstrom is one of the best on the market and the other two goalies that are maybe available (Ullmark and Saros) would cost 5 million as I doubt either of those teams want to eat salary to move those guys.

If you make either or both of those trades you supercharge the rebuild. You also almost guarantee you won’t be great for the next two years and could quite easily expect to have two more picks in the top 10 by June 2026.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I don't get this. Andersson is not going to be a core piece of a contending Flames team.

The reason to trade him is to speed up the rebuild by collecting assets who may be part of the core going forward.

There’s no evidence ownership and management want a deep rebuild. They’ve turned some expiring contracts into assets, and they expect to draft high for the next season or two. But they aren’t tearing it down the studs, as much as many fans want them to.

They want a quick turnaround on this thing. And given how hard it is to get veterans to play in small Canadian markets, the only way I see them moving Andersson is if he says he doesn’t want to stick around.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There’s no evidence ownership and management want a deep rebuild. They’ve turned some expiring contracts into assets, and they expect to draft high for the next season or two. But they aren’t tearing it down the studs, as much as many fans want them to.

They want a quick turnaround on this thing. And given how hard it is to get veterans to play in small Canadian markets, the only way I see them moving Andersson is if he says he doesn’t want to stick around.

Even though they haven't said they were going to rebuild, the Oilers are in the conference finals and up 1 to 0. Lots of series left, but if they make the finals or win the cup maybe our management needs to take note.

The Oilers have made bad trades, signed terrible contracts, hired bad coaches, been terrible at drafting yet are a threat to win a cup. When you get those superstars, they cover up all these bad decisions and give you a chance.

Chicago is terrible but they have Bedard

SJ is terrible but they got Celebrini

Hopefully the Oilers get pounded tomorrow and, in the series, but Flames management needs to look at adding some high-end stars through the draft. We are much better run team and could do tons of damage even if the stars we add aren't McDavid good.

We need to keep trading guys that are aging and going to be high priced for younger players with more control and better contracts and picks

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There’s no evidence ownership and management want a deep rebuild. They’ve turned some expiring contracts into assets, and they expect to draft high for the next season or two. But they aren’t tearing it down the studs, as much as many fans want them to.

They want a quick turnaround on this thing. And given how hard it is to get veterans to play in small Canadian markets, the only way I see them moving Andersson is if he says he doesn’t want to stick around.

I would agree. This thread is at least a year premature. A year ago the question was ‘should Rasmus Andersson be the next captain of the Flames’?

Unless someone is going to blow Conroy’s tight fitting socks off, I don’t think we’ll see a Rasmus Andersson trade any time soon.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There’s no evidence ownership and management want a deep rebuild. They’ve turned some expiring contracts into assets, and they expect to draft high for the next season or two. But they aren’t tearing it down the studs, as much as many fans want them to.

They want a quick turnaround on this thing. And given how hard it is to get veterans to play in small Canadian markets, the only way I see them moving Andersson is if he says he doesn’t want to stick around.

I agree with you and it’s depressing. The longer they refuse to admit reality the longer the rebuild really will take. Just do a proper ####ing rebuild it’s not that difficult to figure out.

Yes, the answer is yes explore for and maximize value for Andersson and you should be able to get a decent haul for him and if you get any sort of reasonable offer you 100% monetize the asset.

This shouldn’t be that difficult.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I would agree. This thread is at least a year premature. A year ago the question was ‘should Rasmus Andersson be the next captain of the Flames’?

Unless someone is going to blow Conroy’s tight fitting socks off, I don’t think we’ll see a Rasmus Andersson trade any time soon.

I agree that it probably does not happen, but it should. Conroy needs to keep it going.

We are likely a bottom team with Andersson so maybe he doesn't need to do it now. But like I said last summer when we didn't sign guys like Lindholm and Hanifin, having them until the trade deadline is costing much more than what we gained at the trade deadline. It's hard to say the price was really that much better at the deadline than the rumors were in the off season, but we pick 9th rather than top 5 now.

I don't think the offers get better in time either. Rasmus had a 50-point year with Gaudreau, Lindholm and Tkachuk on the PP with him. He had 39 last year and lost his #1 PP spot. It's time to move him

[SuperMatt18]

Not trading pieces like Andersson at their peak value is how the rebuild actually takes longer. He's not an elite piece that you have to be worried about moving, he's a great complimentary piece that can play top pairing but ideally would be anchoring a strong second pair.

If Anderson was 25 and still had 6 years left on his deal or something then it's a completely different discussion.

But he's 28 at the start of next season, and has 2 years left on his deal.

To me the options are:

1) Trade him now and try to maximize the return with 2 years at a solid cap hit left on his deal. Something similar to Hronek (traded with 1.5 years left) or Chychrun (traded with 2.5 years left) trades should be possible - pick in that 12-20 range, and at least one 2nd round pick.

2) Wait until next offseason or the following trade deadline to move him...probably will get a return similar to the Hanifin trade this season.

3) Re-sign him - it will require at least 7 years and likely $7M+ on a deal that will start when he's turning 30 years old. And that term and $$ amount is likely being optimistic (personally to me he's going to want 8 x $8M.

If a top 15 pick is on the table for Andersson at this draft then you have to take it IMO. Thats how you can help accelerate a rebuild.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Not trading pieces like Andersson at their peak value is how the rebuild actually takes longer. He's not an elite piece that you have to be worried about moving, he's a great complimentary piece that can play top pairing but ideally would be anchoring a strong second pair.

If Anderson was 25 and still had 6 years left on his deal or something then it's a completely different discussion.

But he's 28 at the start of next season, and has 2 years left on his deal.

To me the options are:

1) Trade him now and try to maximize the return with 2 years at a solid cap hit left on his deal. Something similar to Hronek or Chychrun trades should be possible - pick in that 12-20 range, and at least one 2nd round pick.

2) Wait until next offseason or the following trade deadline to move him...probably will get a return similar to the Hanifin trade this season.

3) Re-sign him - it will require at least 7 years and likely $7M+ and that's being optimistic.

If a top 15 pick is on the table for Andersson at this draft then you have to take it IMO. Thats how you can help accelerate a rebuild.

I think a top 15 pick could be on the table too. If you look at the Hronek deal, does Vancouver regret it? Will other young teams that need a boost take note on how Vancouver went from a non-playoff team to 1st with the addition of a young top pairing guy like Hronek. I'm hoping so, there are teams that have tons of youth, picks and cap that might be sick of rebuilding that Rasmus could make a ton better. Just need to find the fit.

Detroit?
Ottawa?
Minnesota?
Seattle?
Buffalo?

Montreal and Utah might be a good fit too, but their pick could be out of reach without adding 9 back.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I think a top 15 pick could be on the table too. If you look at the Hronek deal, does Vancouver regret it? Will other young teams that need a boost take note on how Vancouver went from a non-playoff team to 1st with the addition of a young top pairing guy like Hronek. I'm hoping so, there are teams that have tons of youth, picks and cap that might be sick of rebuilding that Rasmus could make a ton better. Just need to find the fit.

Detroit?
Ottawa?
Minnesota?
Seattle?
Buffalo?

Montreal and Utah might be a good fit too, but their pick could be out of reach without adding 9 back.

Detroit and Buffalo are the two I keep looking at.

Detroit:

2024 1st (15th OV)
2025 2nd
Chiarot / Holl / Maatta (take back one of their dman contracts)

Buffalo:

2024 1st (11th OV)
2025 2nd (or a similar valued prospect)
Clifton

I think Seattle would have interest...but I doubt they would be willing to move 8th OV. Ottawa seems to be wanting to move a dman (could see more of a hockey trade around Chychrun), and Minnesota should be shopping Kaprizov...not looking to add.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Detroit and Buffalo are the two I keep looking at.

Detroit:

2024 1st (15th OV)
2025 2nd
Chiarot / Holl / Maatta (take back one of their dman contracts)

Buffalo:

2024 1st (11th OV)
2025 2nd (or a similar valued prospect)
Clifton

I think Seattle would have interest...but I doubt they would be willing to move 8th OV.

I agree and I think Detroit needs a guy like Rasmus. Seider is a star but hasn't show that he is elite on the PP so Rasmus could be their #1 pp guy.

Holl makes sense coming back as he doesn't have a NTC and would be nice fit to play with our rebuilding team.

Buffalo is a tough one, they have lots on d. IMO they need guys like Coleman and Backlund to help that team grow more than anything. Rasmus is a leader though, so he would be a good fit too.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I agree and I think Detroit needs a guy like Rasmus. Seider is a star but hasn't show that he is elite on the PP so Rasmus could be their #1 pp guy.

Holl makes sense coming back as he doesn't have a NTC and would be nice fit to play with our rebuilding team.

Buffalo is a tough one, they have lots on d. IMO they need guys like Coleman and Backlund to help that team grow more than anything. Rasmus is a leader though, so he would be a good fit too.

You had better hope that Detroit didn't watch any of our games the past 2 years.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

You had better hope that Detroit didn't watch any of our games the past 2 years.

The mix of a PP matters though. I've said in other posts that Rasmus has been the #1 PP dman in Calgary for a few years and he has been below average and the Flames PP has been below average in that time.

But other than Johnny, the Flames never had anyone that can skate it into the zone. That is a big part of why a pp is great. Oilers PP seems unstoppable, but Mcdavid skates it in with ease almost every time. Once they gain the zone, they are good, but how quickly the get it in is why they score so much.

Detroit has the speed, in the right situation Rasmus and his shot could be a huge asset to a team that needs a big shot from the point. I don't think Rasmus is a top PP QB, but he might be their first option and is a cheap contract for 2 years for a team that has been rebuilding for quite some time. He could be a good fit vs them going for a player 15th overall.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

The mix of a PP matters though. I've said in other posts that Rasmus has been the #1 PP dman in Calgary for a few years and he has been below average and the Flames PP has been below average in that time.

But other than Johnny, the Flames never had anyone that can skate it into the zone. That is a big part of why a pp is great. Oilers PP seems unstoppable, but Mcdavid skates it in with ease almost every time. Once they gain the zone, they are good, but how quickly the get it in is why they score so much.

Detroit has the speed, in the right situation Rasmus and his shot could be a huge asset to a team that needs a big shot from the point. I don't think Rasmus is a top PP QB, but he might be their first option and is a cheap contract for 2 years for a team that has been rebuilding for quite some time. He could be a good fit vs them going for a player 15th overall.

He is a point man who doesn't shoot! who has a shot! Is he scared to injure guys in front of the net? i don't get it.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

He is a point man who doesn't shoot! who has a shot! Is he scared to injure guys in front of the net? i don't get it.

But when you are defending a PP that has Huderdeau, Kadri, Lindholm (good shooter but not that big shot on the PP) and you're moving the puck slowly because your PP sucks, do you shovel shots into the shot blocker or pass? Maybe he shoots more on a good PP that moves the puck quickly and has better options.

Bouchard is no better of a shooter, but Draisaitl is threat #1 for Mcdavid to pass to so teams have to pick, and they pick leaving Bouchard to be the shooter often.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

But when you are defending a PP that has Huderdeau, Kadri, Lindholm (good shooter but not that big shot on the PP) and you're moving the puck slowly because your PP sucks, do you shovel shots into the shot blocker or pass? Maybe he shoots more on a good PP that moves the puck quickly and has better options.

Bouchard is no better of a shooter, but Draisaitl is threat #1 for Mcdavid to pass to so teams have to pick, and they pick leaving Bouchard to be the shooter often.

He wasn't any good when Tkachuk, Gaudreau. Monahan and Toffoli were here. He had 2 goals on the top unit that was in the top 10 of the NHL. We would have been top 3 if Sutter would have a made change to Kylington or even Hanifin or Zadorov.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

He wasn't any good when Tkachuk, Gaudreau. Monahan and Toffoli were here. He had 2 goals on the top unit that was in the top 10 of the NHL. We would have been top 3 if Sutter would have a made change to Kylington or even Hanifin

True, he has 4 career PPG's. I just hope someone else thinks he is good enough to QB their PP.

[DropIt]

Only for an established, young replacement IMO.

Example: Detroit for Sandin-Pellikka seems like a deal that would benefit both sides.