Can Tornadoes Strike In River Valleys?

[Ford Prefect]

Does anyone in the esteemed and vastly knowledgeable CP community know if tornadoes can strike in river valleys? I live in Drumheller, and the topic comes up every year around tornadoe season. The general consensus is no, but nobody has any valid reasons other than they've never heard of it happening. I tried Google, and turned up cases in the mid-eastern US where they've struck in river valleys, but river valleys in the mid-eastern US tend to be pretty shallow compared to the Red Deer river valley. Locals around Drum figure tornaodes will just skip over the valley. Does anyone have any knowledge on this? David Spence ... are you out there?

[ken0042]

The Red River Valley in Winnipeg had them, but once again it was pretty shallow.

IIRC Calgary right on the western edge of where tornados can form. I would think Drumheller is still flat enough for one to form.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by ken0042

The Red River Valley in Winnipeg had them, but once again it was pretty shallow.

IIRC Calgary right on the western edge of where tornados can form. I would think Drumheller is still flat enough for one to form.

Ya, there have been lots up top. There was one sighted around Three Hills today supposedly ... that's what brought up the latest round of this debate. There's apparently never been one hit in the valley though. Same with where I grew up in the Battle River valley. I've heard various arguements about why ... the best one probably is that updrafts over river valleys prevent tornadoes from touching down in them. That's just a lay opinion though. I'd like to hear if there has either been a known tornadoe strike in a deeper river valley like the Red Deer's, or if not, why.

[BlackArcher101]

Tornado's strike ANYWHERE. They could strike downtown New York if conditions were right.

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Does anyone in the esteemed and vastly knowledgeable CP community know if tornadoes can strike in river valleys?

Of course they can. A river valley can't affect the weather enough to stop a tornado.

[burn_baby_burn]

Does the wind blow in Drum? If so, why coudn't a tornado blow into the valley? But is the threat of a Tornado in Drumheller that great to begin with?

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by KevanGuy

Of course they can. A river valley can't affect the weather enough to stop a tornado.

What about thermal updrafts over valleys?

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

What about thermal updrafts over valleys?

The power and energy behind a tornado (or more specifically the supercell that would spawn it) superceedes anything a river valley could throw at it.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Does the wind blow in Drum? If so, why coudn't a tornado blow into the valley? But is the threat of a Tornado in Drumheller that great to begin with?

Regarding the wind, yes, or course it blows here. But that's also the theory some people use for why they can't touch down ... thermal updrafts. As for the threat level, I don't know how great the threat is, but they have touched down in every direction on top over the years.

People seem to be attacking my post as though I've stated tornadoes cannot hit deep river valleys. That's not the case. I can come up with reasons both for and against that hypothesis. Logic of course says they can. What I'm looking for is whether someone has some hard science either for or against such an occurance, not just opinions. All my neighbours have plenty of opinions ... what I'm interested in is some actual science to rebut them with.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by KevanGuy

The power and energy behind a tornado (or more specifically the supercell that would spawn it) superceedes anything a river valley could throw at it.

Then why did the one at Pine Lake skip over the lake? That's according to at least a half dozen eye witnesses I've talked to. If air currents over a lake can affect things, why not air currents over a river valley?

Edit: I not denying you're right ... just probing for the science behind your stance.

[ken0042]

Did it skip over the lake? (I don't know.) I'm just thinking that any path it would have cut through the lake would have been filled in by water; as opposed to scars left on the land.

I seem to recall tornados hitting Lake Winnipeg; and sucking up water.

[KevanGuy]

Well, tornadoes happen over water. They are called water spouts.

Who knows about the Pine Lake one. These things can raise and lower from the clouds frequently. And what is happening in a tornado has more to do with whats going on in the cell, less with the topography.

I guess it is important to note to that the intensity of the tornado will affect things. I mean, a weak tornado is going to be more susceptible to outside forces then an F4 or something.

[burn_baby_burn]

I have talked to a few people that live near Pine Lake about the tornado. But I can't remember hearing if it skipped over the lake or not?

[burn_baby_burn]

If you do a search on line there are plenty of pictures of Tornados over bodies of water.

I'm not a scientist. But if a snow flake can fall into the Red Deer River valley? Why can't a powerfull Tornado?

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

.

People seem to be attacking my post as though I've stated tornadoes cannot hit deep river valleys.

Sorry, forgot to add, I dont mean to have an attacking tone.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I have talked to a few people that live near Pine Lake about the tornado. But I can't remember hearing if it skipped over the lake or not?

I'm just going on hearsay about that, although I believed the guy. His family has a cottage on the far side of the lake from where the tornado first touched down. He said that at some point at least when it was over the water it had to have lifted because when it hit the far side of the lake there were some properties between the shore and his family's cottage that weren't touched. He claims the tornado touched down a ways "inland" and resumed its destructive path. I've heard that from a few other people as well, but they weren't as reliable witnesses as the guy I outlined above. Maybe it was just a case of the tornado doing it's own thing and the fact the it lifted while going over the lake was merely a coincidence.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

If you do a search on line there are plenty of pictures of Tornados over bodies of water.

I'm not a scientist. But if a snow flake can fall into the Red Deer River valley? Why can't a powerfull Tornado?

I agree ... why can't it. My whole point is that I've never heard of it happening, and the Red Deer river winds through the heart of Alberta's worst tornado belt, so it seems odd. And because there are no anecdotal accounts of one ever hitting the valley, locals feel like it can't happen and they're bullet proof. That's why I'm looking for either a story of a tornado hitting the Red Deer valley, or a meteorlogical explanation of why or why not. My arguement with my neighbours have been along the same lines as what's been brought up here ... a tornado is so strong nothing like an itty bitty thermal updraft is going to stop it, they can strike where ever they please, etc.

While we're on the topic, something related is trailer courts. Is there a scientific or meteorlogical explanation for why tornados ALWAYS seem to hit them ... they're kind of the opposite of the river valley thing.

[Bobblehead]

Utica Tornado

There are many myths when it comes to the weather. One claims that if you live next to a river, you're protected from tornadoes.

The Utica storm proves rivers don't offer protection. Utica is nestled in a valley next to the quiet Illinois river. Many in this town of 1,000 thought that meant protection from tornadoes.

"The thought was always there that the tornado would be in the flat land and skip over the valley and this one just didn't do what it was supposed to do,” said Utica Fire Chief Dave Edgcomb.

Instead, it crossed the river and took aim on downtown, destroying several city blocks.

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

And because there are no anecdotal accounts of one ever hitting the valley, locals feel like it can't happen and they're bullet proof. That's why I'm looking for either a story of a tornado hitting the Red Deer valley, or a meteorlogical explanation of why or why not.

Well, I guess you could kinda look at it from the other side. If valley updrafts stopped tornadoes you would probably find (science) links saying so.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Utica Tornado

Perfect ... that's what I'm looking for. Thanks. Your Google skills must be better than mine.