2024 Off-season trade rumours and speculation thread

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

First round picks don't make or break a club. You can have first round busts but have later round selections that actually help build your competitive roster.

IMO the most important pick is 2nd round picks, because this is where the hype wears off and the real drafting begins.

Higher picks equal higher chances of getting better ceiling players. As you start to get lower, there are question marks about skill or chances to get there (whether injury history or work ethic). To say the Flames are smarter than everyone else by saying they don’t have to go the tank route, is complete arrogance by ownership. Sure even if you get first overall it doesn’t guarantee success but I guarantee you people will flock to watch the first overall pick. Not to mention the chances are better than most you’ll have a franchise player for years to come. If you’re relying on your second round picks to hit franchise player status, you better have the best scouts and player development in the league.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Find me a Stanley cup winning team without core high firsts.

The 2011 Boston Bruins

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The 2011 Boston Bruins

Perfect. Is that all? Would you say that maybe it’s important?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Perfect. Is that all? Would you say that maybe it’s important?

I just found what you said to find.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The 2011 Boston Bruins

They did have 2nd overall Seguin and 3rd overall Horton on the team. To be fair Horton was traded for, but he was part of the core.

Remainder of the core, Bergerson, Marchand, Krejci and Lucic all home grown talent.

So yeah drafting well in later rounds is important as well.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

They did have 2nd overall Seguin and 3rd overall Horton on the team. To be fair Horton was traded for, but he was part of the core.

Remainder of the core, Bergerson, Marchand, Krejci and Lucic all home grown talent.

So yeah drafting well in later rounds is important as well.

I would say it is more important. Show me a cup winner and I will show you impact players drafted out of the 1st round.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Higher picks equal higher chances of getting better ceiling players. As you start to get lower, there are question marks about skill or chances to get there (whether injury history or work ethic). To say the Flames are smarter than everyone else by saying they don’t have to go the tank route, is complete arrogance by ownership. Sure even if you get first overall it doesn’t guarantee success but I guarantee you people will flock to watch the first overall pick. Not to mention the chances are better than most you’ll have a franchise player for years to come. If you’re relying on your second round picks to hit franchise player status, you better have the best scouts and player development in the league.

Higher chances to get a performing player, but doing skilled scoutwork from rounds 2-7 is much more difficult and also important. Plus you need skilled, consistently-performing depth to build a team. You don't normally get that depth in rounds 1 (because as you say, you get the first line/top pairing type players that may end up playing well (or not)).

I'm a fan of pro wrestling. Hulk Hogan in the WWF was the bees knees in the eighties, but he's nothing without the great supporting cast that fed him his wins and dollars into Vince's bank account. Paul Orndorff, Iron Sheik, King Kong Bundy, Earthquake and Ted DiBiase helped put him on the map.

My point is, first round picks are great - but they more often than not DON'T make/break an NHL club. You need to use all your rounds effectively, and 2-7 are extremely important to success. Unless you're a Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby or Stamkos.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I would say it is more important. Show me a cup winner and I will show you impact players drafted out of the 1st round.

The Lightning 2 best players came outside the 1st round.

They also had a 1st overall on the roster and a hit mid round in the 1st, but still Point and Kucherov drove that team.

That's why I harp on going to the draft with as many picks as we can get. We are not at the stage in our cycle to trade picks.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The Lightning 2 best players came outside the 1st round.

They also had a 1st overall on the roster and a hit mid round in the 1st, but still Point and Kucherov drove that team.

That's why I harp on going to the draft with as many picks as we can get. We are not at the stage in our cycle to trade picks.

The Lightning had 2nd overall on their roster, a player that some would say was their most important player.

[traptor]

I think its safe to say you just need to hit BIG on some of your picks. It doesn't matter if it's 1st oa or the 7th round, but you need to find star players for Boston that could be Bergeron or Pasta. For tampa that's kucherov or hedman.

It doesn't matter where but you have to hit BIG.

The flames havnt hit big since Gaudreau and Chucky. Wolf is the only one really projecting with that potential in our system. Maybe zary if he can find a couple more levels. Bruz and coronato with a small offchance.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by traptor

I think its safe to say you just need to hit BIG on some of your picks. It doesn't matter if it's 1st oa or the 7th round, but you need to find star players for Boston that could be Bergeron or Pasta. For tampa that's kucherov or hedman.

It doesn't matter where but you have to hit BIG.

The flames havnt hit big since Gaudreau and Chucky. Wolf is the only one really projecting with that potential in our system. Maybe zary if he can find a couple more levels. Bruz and coronato with a small offchance.

Yeah, the conversation around the importance of 1sts is really just based on the idea that it’s easier to hit big on them. But if you draft a top 5-quality pick in the 6th, that’s just as good. It’s just way, way more difficult.

[#-3]

I think first round picks absolutely make or break a club.

If you bat 50% in the first round, 25% in the second and single digits in the rest of the draft. you are probably building a strong team through the draft. IF you're like the Flames where you are probably only happy with 6/22 picks in a 23 year span, then you've created a real hill for the organization to overcome.

You look at team like Dallas who have picked in the 1st 21 times over that time frame, and they are probably at 10 picks that they are satisfied with from a scouting prospective at this point. The difference between pulling 5 NHLs and 3 NHLers out of the first round every Decade is massive. And they did not have the Calgary advantage where the success Calgary had were 6th overall or 9th overall gimmes from a draft order prospective.

Ott
Niskanen
Campbell
Oleksiak
Faksa
Nichushkin
Dickinson
Heiskanen
Otettinger
Johnston

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Lightning had 2nd overall on their roster, a player that some would say was their most important player.

Of course, he was picked in a rebuild that took place over a decade earlier (along with a 1OA the year before). They'd already gotten bad again and drafted 3OA in 2013. But they got Drouin in that one. It wasn't until their later picks like Vasilevsky, Kucherov and Point (along with Cirelli and Colton) came, and after they fillied in with trades, that they were cup winners.

You need to hit on those high picks. But you also need more. Because while nearly every cup winning team has some, so do a lot of non winners. Look north, look at Buffalo, look at Columbus.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Of course, he was picked in a rebuild that took place over a decade earlier (along with a 1OA the year before). They'd already gotten bad again and drafted 3OA in 2013. But they got Drouin in that one. It wasn't until their later picks like Vasilevsky, Kucherov and Point (along with Cirelli and Colton) came, and after they fillied in with trades, that they were cup winners.

You need to hit on those high picks. But you also need more. Because while nearly every cup winning team has some, so do a lot of non winners. Look north, look at Buffalo, look at Columbus.

Colorado is another example that essentially had to undergo a double rebuild. But it's important to note that neither them nor TB tried to sell assets to speed up the rebuild- instead, they allowed themselves to falter, drafted high again, turned around some of those early takes for better players (Drouin into Sergachev +, Duchene for Byram (Now Middlestadt)+ Girard).

But, the result is still that you have to suck and draft really high to be a legit contender.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

But, the result is still that you have to suck and draft really high to be a legit contender.

So only Florida, Edmonton, Colorado, and the Rangers are any good in your opinion.

Again loser mentality seeing what you want to see.

Lottery luck plays a role, no one can control how that happens. But you get 6 other picks every draft and teams like Dallas, Boston, and Carolina have done more with those. Start making more of that opportunity and try to gain picks in every draft for the next 5 seasons.

I'm not saying trade for Marner and sign long term UFA's to be better for next year. Take 3 years to turn over this roster and move on from most of the vets as their contracts expire or when the right opportunity comes along. But don't fire sale them all today to be San Jose bad for the next 5 years and burn up all your retention slots for multiple years.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Higher chances to get a performing player, but doing skilled scoutwork from rounds 2-7 is much more difficult and also important. Plus you need skilled, consistently-performing depth to build a team. You don't normally get that depth in rounds 1 (because as you say, you get the first line/top pairing type players that may end up playing well (or not)).

I'm a fan of pro wrestling. Hulk Hogan in the WWF was the bees knees in the eighties, but he's nothing without the great supporting cast that fed him his wins and dollars into Vince's bank account. Paul Orndorff, Iron Sheik, King Kong Bundy, Earthquake and Ted DiBiase helped put him on the map.

My point is, first round picks are great - but they more often than not DON'T make/break an NHL club. You need to use all your rounds effectively, and 2-7 are extremely important to success. Unless you're a Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby or Stamkos.

In other words in addition to a solid supporting cast first round pics are still important.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

In other words in addition to a solid supporting cast first round pics are still important.

Can't have one without the other. Teams win cups, individuals win awards.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Toronto has indicated it wants to resign Domi and Betruzzi, and needs 2 good dmen and a goalie to share games with Woll.

That will get them back, more or less, to last year's team.

But I thought the goal was to improve the team?

The Washington Capitals spent years losing early in the playoffs, didn't do a major overhaul and finally won. Why does Toronto need to panic?

If the keep Bertuzzi and Domi they won't need all the RFA forwards. Deepnds what they get, but they are slowly creating cap room.

They have their 1st too. Their situation could be much worse. They lost to Boston who crushed Florida too. Is Boston a good team? They lost to a good team. It wasn't a huge upset where they choked in the 1st round.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

So only Florida, Edmonton, Colorado, and the Rangers are any good in your opinion.

Again loser mentality seeing what you want to see.

What is with people and half reading? TB is obviously included, but IMO Dallas is an unmentioned that should be included (Heskainen), Carolina has Svechnikov and Necas drafted in the top 10. NJ will probably be in the next few years, and Buffalo has a good chance of becoming good (though hilariously cursed.)

Even Vancouver is relying on Q Hughes and E Pettersen, both top 10 picks.

But yeah, it's pretty clear. You named 4 of the teams in the conference semi finals... Boston is the only one that doesn't fit the trend and they are a massive aberration by basically any measure.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Of course, he was picked in a rebuild that took place over a decade earlier (along with a 1OA the year before). They'd already gotten bad again and drafted 3OA in 2013. But they got Drouin in that one. It wasn't until their later picks like Vasilevsky, Kucherov and Point (along with Cirelli and Colton) came, and after they fillied in with trades, that they were cup winners.

You need to hit on those high picks. But you also need more. Because while nearly every cup winning team has some, so do a lot of non winners. Look north, look at Buffalo, look at Columbus.

Drouin, picked during their two year “second rebuild” before they went to the Finals. I personally would gladly take a 3 year rebuild, then a trip to the conference finals and then a two year rebuild and then basically a decade run of very good hockey.

Don’t disagree that you need the later picks too but the Lightning were able to avoid a long period in the wilderness because they hit on a number one pick and a number two pick.