2024 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[Roof-Daddy]

The most important thing the jays need to figure out is why these young core players are dying on the vine.

You go back to 2021 and 2022 the Jays looked poised to be a juggernaut with a young core that looked unstoppable.

Vlad was an early 20's 6+ WAR in 2021, 2nd in MVP voting and triple crown contender
Bo was an early 20's perennial 4+ WAR SS
Manoah came into the league with 6 WAR in his first season and a half and was a CY finalist
Pearson was the top pitching prospect in all of baseball and DOMINATING AAA
Kirk's bat could not be stopped all the way up the MiLB ladder and he broke into the league the same way and was a 4 WAR catcher

I don't think a single person on the planet would have predicted that we'd be sitting here in 2024 five weeks into the season with those 5 core pieces being basically replacement level as a group.

It's a total disaster.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The most important thing the jays need to figure out is why these young core players are dying on the vine.

You go back to 2021 and 2022 the Jays looked poised to be a juggernaut with a young core that looked unstoppable.

Vlad was an early 20's 6+ WAR in 2021, 2nd in MVP voting and triple crown contender
Bo was an early 20's perennial 4+ WAR SS
Manoah came into the league with 6 WAR in his first season and a half and was a CY finalist
Pearson was the top pitching prospect in all of baseball and DOMINATING AAA
Kirk's bat could not be stopped all the way up the MiLB ladder and he broke into the league the same way and was a 4 WAR catcher

I don't think a single person on the planet would have predicted that we'd be sitting here in 2024 five weeks into the season with those 5 core pieces being basically replacement level as a group.

It's a total disaster.

The bats are the biggest concern, and it feels to me like bats actually have gotten worse the more time they spend on this roster / in this organization.

I think they need to clean house and get a different message to these players.

In terms of pitchers it's actually the same too for a while now...veteran pitchers seem to do well here but the young guys fall of a cliff at some point...Romero, Sanchez, Stroman, Manoah...all fall of a cliff.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The most important thing the jays need to figure out is why these young core players are dying on the vine.

You go back to 2021 and 2022 the Jays looked poised to be a juggernaut with a young core that looked unstoppable.

Vlad was an early 20's 6+ WAR in 2021, 2nd in MVP voting and triple crown contender
Bo was an early 20's perennial 4+ WAR SS
Manoah came into the league with 6 WAR in his first season and a half and was a CY finalist
Pearson was the top pitching prospect in all of baseball and DOMINATING AAA
Kirk's bat could not be stopped all the way up the MiLB ladder and he broke into the league the same way and was a 4 WAR catcher

I don't think a single person on the planet would have predicted that we'd be sitting here in 2024 five weeks into the season with those 5 core pieces being basically replacement level as a group.

It's a total disaster.

Not trying to lay everything at the feet of Atkins but for a management team that came in preaching development and peak performance, where is it?

In addition to the list you have here what young player have they developed in the last 3-4 years? If you have this great development model and mindset where are the results, at any level? is there any position player who has gotten to this peak performance since becoming a Blue Jay? Even for pitching sure I think Pete Walker is good at what he does but their success there lies in going out and getting, and paying a premium for too, establish talent. Who have they developed?

Blair/Barker was the ones who got me on this path but the Jays do have the feeling of a science experiment gone wrong. You can debate some of the moves and the philosophy of Atkins but the biggest question I have for them is where is this performance enablement and development you spoke of because I see no examples of it, and as you pointed out you actually see a TON of regression.

[Kasi]

There is some positive signs for Jays young bats with Orelvis, Schneider, Clement, Barger and Horwitz. Now if those guys had better draft pedigree I think we’d get more kudos there but we know for prospect rankings pedigree and where they’re drafted beats everything. But on numbers Buffalo is a very good hitting group.

Pitching is a disaster though. Our elite prospects are injured and the guys behind them are average at best. We do not have many good reliever prospects. Team is literally #### at developing pitchers right now.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Where did I say that they needed proven elite bats? They needed good bats and there were several - Teo, Soler, Hoskins, Martinez, Gurriel, Pederson…

Nobody forced them to put their eggs in their basket.

Here our these players WAR this season

Teo 1.1
Soler -0.1
Hoskins 0.2
Martinez 0.0
Gueriel 0.3
Pederson 0.9 (Jays kicked the tire but he ended up going back on a show me deal because no one would pay his asking price)

We signed

Turner 0.7
IKF 0.7

So what did you want to team to do?

Vlad is 0.4 WAR, Bo -0.5, and Springer 0.1

So we could have got rid of those 3 guys, signed Teo, Gueriel, and Hoskins, had IKF play SS and we would have.... about 1.5 more wins on the season

I hate Atkins and his approach. I hate our inability to develop players. I hate our non aggresive basepath approach. I hate that all our hitters have the same weaknesses and attribute it to coaching

But to continue and trot out that they made some monumental error in the offseason is insane to me. The two guys we signed have been 2 of our best players and better then almost every other FA

Unless you think somehow Ohtani and Soto would end up here (And they tried) I am not sure what you wanted the Jays to do

They had no choice but to put their eggs in the Vladdy and Bo Basket and to an extent Kirk.

(The bullpen falling apart is another big UGH on top of the pathetic hitting)

If your stars dont play like stars you dont win.

They need to figure out WHY the stars continue to not play like stars. Or just start the rebuild because nothing is coming down the pipeline that will be impactful

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Here our these players WAR this season

Teo 1.1
Soler -0.1
Hoskins 0.2
Martinez 0.0
Gueriel 0.3
Pederson 0.9 (Jays kicked the tire but he ended up going back on a show me deal because no one would pay his asking price)

We signed

Turner 0.7
IKF 0.7

So what did you want to team to do?

Vlad is 0.4 WAR, Bo -0.5, and Springer 0.1

So we could have got rid of those 3 guys, signed Teo, Gueriel, and Hoskins, had IKF play SS and we would have.... about 1.5 more wins on the season

I hate Atkins and his approach. I hate our inability to develop players. I hate our non aggresive basepath approach. I hate that all our hitters have the same weaknesses and attribute it to coaching

But to continue and trot out that they made some monumental error in the offseason is insane to me. The two guys we signed have been 2 of our best players and better then almost every other FA

Unless you think somehow Ohtani and Soto would end up here (And they tried) I am not sure what you wanted the Jays to do

They had no choice but to put their eggs in the Vladdy and Bo Basket and to an extent Kirk.

Guerrero’s WAR for the entire 2023 season was 1.3. Teo’s almost matched that WAR in a quarter of a season. Vlad simply hasn’t looked like a guy who can carry a team since 2021. He’s led the team in WAR only one time in his career.

I still think Bo will turn it around but he needs guys who can regularly drive him in.

Springer is likely washed at the plate. He hasn’t been the $25 million player that we needed him to be in a few years.

IKF has had a decent start with the Jays but he hasn’t been a consistent 1 WAR player throughout his career.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I don’t think this a joke? It’s not April 1st.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1787604778035360233

[ben voyonsdonc]

[Galakanokis]

Sanchez is only 31, seems like a lifetime ago he was a Jay. maybe Walker can work his magic on him and make him serviceable.

[Roof-Daddy]

Minor league deal. He's there to eat innings in AAA it looks like.

They moved Parsons and White, Tiedemann injured and Rodriguez called up. Also no AA starters are looking ready for promotion so they need someone to start in Buffalo.

[KelVarnsen]

[ben voyonsdonc]

White was DFA’d by the Giants yesterday so they could grab him off waivers or make a cheap deal for him.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I don’t think this a joke? It’s not April 1st.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1787604778035360233

RobinWilliamsWhatYearIsIt.gif

[Jiri Hrdina]

What's the latest on Votto?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

White was DFA’d by the Giants yesterday so they could grab him off waivers or make a cheap deal for him.

Might be a nice stop gap. They definitely need someone who can eat innings and he seems like potentially a better option than Manoah.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Guerrero’s WAR for the entire 2023 season was 1.3. Teo’s almost matched that WAR in a quarter of a season. Vlad simply hasn’t looked like a guy who can carry a team since 2021. He’s led the team in WAR only one time in his career.

I still think Bo will turn it around but he needs guys who can regularly drive him in.

Springer is likely washed at the plate. He hasn’t been the $25 million player that we needed him to be in a few years.

IKF has had a decent start with the Jays but he hasn’t been a consistent 1 WAR player throughout his career.

So you think the smart move would have been to trade Vlad and sign Teo ?

Heck it may be the smart move - but it isn’t moving the goalposts .

The teams only chance of doing damage is their stars to play like their stars

[browna]

That sound you hear is Marco Estrada and Steve Delabar getting off the couch to look for their gloves.

[flamingred89]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I don’t think this a joke? It’s not April 1st.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1787604778035360233

Classic.

I wonder if the there is an organization that has had more one year wonder pitchers than the Jays. Romero, Sanchez, Manoah. All looked like potential aces only to completely fall apart.

[flamingred89]

Originally Posted by browna

That sound you hear is Marco Estrada and Steve Delabar getting off the couch to look for their gloves.

Roberto Osuna is probably available..

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I mean, they have the 12th best record of 15 teams in the AL. They're only 4 games back, but they'd have to pass 5 other non-playoff teams and one current playoff team to make it.

Right. Like I said. 4 games back.
And in enough trouble, at that.
How far they are behind the team with the AL's best record not relevant.