Israel declares war on Hamas

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Why argue in good faith when you can just make up your own facts?

Hey how are those hostages doing? Are those brave freedom fighters treating them well or still raping?



Whatever happened to that great chant you guys had? "From the something to the something..." How did it go? Oh it was deemed to be genocidal, oh that's a bad look. xD

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

What is the plan to achieve all of these objectives? From my understanding, there isn't one. If there is a hypothetical plan that has been war gamed out, that should be the one that they should be following.

Fair question! I actually addressed this in November 2023 and have posted it two more times (this is the third) over the past two days:

Originally Posted by Sliver

Nobody has said that. Nobody expects them to turn the other cheek. That's preposterous.

We expect them to hold those who planned, funded and perpetrated the attack to account.

That requires them going into any country on planet earth to find and kill any Hamas leadership that is responsible wherever they may be hiding. You need diplomacy and spies to make that happen. Get on it.

They also have the unenviable job of rooting out Hamas leadership within Gaza. That is difficult, dangerous, time consuming and doesn't have the whizz-bang factor that dropping bombs here there and everywhere has. It would require patience and the help/support of Palestinians.

A good way to have garnered support from Palestinians would have been to treat them like equal humans prior to October 7. Too late now for that, and as evidenced by the thoughtless takes in this thread, all of this madness started on October 7 and you aren't allowed to point out prior history or Israeli atrocities directed at Gazans. I'll let that part go because the cheerleaders for the Israeli army can't seem to hold these two thoughts in their heads simultaneously: the October 7 attack was evil, horrible and worthy of severe punishment/retribution AND Israel's response is going to make a dangerous situation worse and the slaughter of innocent civilians is unacceptable. Kinda weird how they're all up in arms (rightfully) at Hamas slaughtering their people, but can justify Israel slaughtering 10x (and counting) more Palestinians, but again, not here to argue that since I'm at the point where I have to accept that supporters of this Israeli government are not mentally equipped to grasp that.

In short, you'd have to be a moron to believe Israel doesn't have the right to respond. I believe you also have to be a moron to think anything and everything Israel does is permissible and acceptable as a response. There are responses that would be ethical, proportionate, punitive and substantive enough to deter future attacks; however, Israel's current approach is counter to all of those points. Their murderous and blood-thirsty response is unethical, disproportionate and will only worsen relations (and safety) in the area.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Skootenbeeten

Hey how are those hostages doing? Are those brave freedom fighters treating them well or still raping?



Whatever happened to that great chant you guys had? "From the something to the something..." How did it go? Oh it was deemed to be genocidal, oh that's a bad look. xD

Did that phrase hurt you? Wasn't genocidal enough? You like real-life genocide, right? Phrases aren't enough for you, you like to see palestinian blood. You love the real genocide going on just admit it.

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Did that phrase hurt you? Wasn't genocidal enough? You like real-life genocide, right? Phrases aren't enough for you, you like to see palestinian blood. You love the real genocide going on just admit it.

Ah don't want to talk about the hostages, I understand it's kinda a sore spot. Like your heroes actively go out to rape women and children, makes it kinda hard to cheer for em I guess. Do your other buddies Hezbollah and ISIS rape as much as Hamas or less?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Skootenbeeten

Hey how are those hostages doing? Are those brave freedom fighters treating them well or still raping?



Whatever happened to that great chant you guys had? "From the something to the something..." How did it go? Oh it was deemed to be genocidal, oh that's a bad look. xD

Why are you zionists so obsessed with rape? It's really weird.

35,000 dead civilians, including 14,000 children
77,000 injured and maimed
Mass graves with people, including children's hands zip tied
Ongoing famine

Zionists: " bUt wHAt abOut ThA RAPESSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Why are you zionists so obsessed with rape? It's really weird.

35,000 dead civilians, including 14,000 children
77,000 injured and maimed
Mass graves with people, including children's hands zip tied
Ongoing famine

Zionists: " bUt wHAt abOut ThA RAPESSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Oh no I triggered him. You aren't supposed to talk about the rapes, or the hostages or the rocket attacks or the suicide attacks, or the border with Egypt or the attacks from Iran, or the harassing of Jews across the world or the genocidal chants or the 5 times Palestine had rejected statehood or the wars started by neighbor countries.... Whew this list is getting long 😆

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Why are you zionists so obsessed with rape? It's really weird.

35,000 dead civilians, including 14,000 children
77,000 injured and maimed
Mass graves with people, including children's hands zip tied
Ongoing famine

Zionists: " bUt wHAt abOut ThA RAPESSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!"

My guess is because the dead children angle is no longer effective terror-porn for them given the significantly higher number of dead Palestinian children.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Why are you zionists so obsessed with rape? It's really weird.

35,000 dead civilians, including 14,000 children
77,000 injured and maimed
Mass graves with people, including children's hands zip tied
Ongoing famine

Zionists: " bUt wHAt abOut ThA RAPESSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I don't really have a dog in this fight as I think both sides are morons... but did you just try and minimize rape?

Many people that experience sexual torture would actually prefer death and are effectively dead mentally afterwards. Especially months of it.

Both things here are bad, and as brutal as the response from Israel has been, bottom line, if October 7th didn't happen, 99% of those Palestinians are still alive. There is no chicken or egg argument as it relates to the current conflict.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by pylon

I don't really have a dog in this fight as I think both sides are morons... but did you just try and minimize rape?

Many people that experience sexual torture would actually prefer death and are effectively dead mentally afterwards. Especially months of it.

Both things here are bad, and as brutal as the response from Israel has been, bottom line, if October 7th didn't happen, 99% of those Palestinians are still alive. There is no chicken or egg argument as it relates to the current conflict.

Asks if he tried to minimize rape.

Follows it up by minimizing dead children.

Makes a chicken/egg argument.

Says there’s no chicken/egg argument.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by pylon

I don't really have a dog in this fight as I think both sides are morons... but did you just try and minimize rape?

Many people that experience sexual torture would actually prefer death and are effectively dead mentally afterwards. Especially months of it.

Both things here are bad, and as brutal as the response from Israel has been, bottom line, if October 7th didn't happen, 99% of those Palestinians are still alive. There is no chicken or egg argument as it relates to the current conflict.

Nobody is justifying or minimizing rape, including myself.

It's just become a diversion tactic, and in some cases a flat out threat by some. I've seen pro-israel protestors yelling "I hope they rape you" to the other side.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Asks if he tried to minimize rape.

Follows it up by minimizing dead children.

Makes a chicken/egg argument.

Says there’s no chicken/egg argument.

You honestly exist to take people out of context.

I'll quote myself

"Both things are bad" ie rape and murder of children.

And there is no question who started the current conflict as it stands. Hamas murdered Jews, raped Jews, and killed families on October 7th. They FAFO'd. There is zero ambiguity about what triggered this whole thing, ie no chicken or egg argument. Hamas triggered it. Period.

Do I agree with the response? No. I think Israel can more than say they have their pound of flesh. But I will say this, my personal patience and sympathy is wearing very thin, as for the first time in my adult life, I actually experienced true antisemitism. What I stood there and listened to a couple Palestine supporters say right in front of me, would have not been far from words that would have been uttered at a Nazi rally in 1938. And many of the words coming out of these College kids mouths are the same.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Nobody is justifying or minimizing rape, including myself.

It's just become a diversion tactic, and in some cases a flat out threat by some. I've seen pro-israel protestors yelling "I hope they rape you" to the other side.

And I listened to a group of 20 something kids debating this situation and uttering the exact words "Maybe Hitler had the right idea." So let's not paint the Palestine side as a bunch of harmless angels. Because that's in reference to starving, gassing and burning Jews.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by pylon

And I listened to a group of 20 something kids debating this situation and uttering the exact words "Maybe Hitler had the right idea." So let's not paint the Palestine side as a bunch of harmless angels. Because that's in reference to starving, gassing and burning Jews.

Those kids are stupid. I don't think there's any world in which it's OK to wish genocide on the Jews.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by pylon

And I listened to a group of 20 something kids debating this situation and uttering the exact words "Maybe Hitler had the right idea." So let's not paint the Palestine side as a bunch of harmless angels. Because that's in reference to starving, gassing and burning Jews.

Yeah I'm sure that happened.

What we know happened is what is happening currently in Gaza which is a genocide. And what happened on Oct 7th which was horrible.

Let's leave personal anecdotes out of this and stick to what is happening.

Also nobody is painting any side innocent.

[InternationalVillager]

When I was growing up, my dad raised me to acquire multiple passports/citizenships. Now when I travel throughout the world and I see the plight of so many people and being simply due to their lack of mobility (lacking documentation / if we ignore finances for this point) - it hits differently when you see this first hand. Feel blessed to have had the upbringing that I had just by the knowledge that my dad gave me. In a world where there is so much uncertainty, it's more important than ever imo.

[FlameOn]

Pro-Palestinian protestors disrupt annual March of Life outside Auschwitz.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...emorial-march/

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by pylon

You honestly exist to take people out of context.

I'll quote myself

"Both things are bad" ie rape and murder of children.

And there is no question who started the current conflict as it stands. Hamas murdered Jews, raped Jews, and killed families on October 7th. They FAFO'd. There is zero ambiguity about what triggered this whole thing, ie no chicken or egg argument. Hamas triggered it. Period.

Do I agree with the response? No. I think Israel can more than say they have their pound of flesh. But I will say this, my personal patience and sympathy is wearing very thin, as for the first time in my adult life, I actually experienced true antisemitism. What I stood there and listened to a couple Palestine supporters say right in front of me, would have not been far from words that would have been uttered at a Nazi rally in 1938. And many of the words coming out of these College kids mouths are the same.

But what does this have to do with the actual conflict at hand? Some guys were being bad guys so that means what? What does this have to do with what's happening over seas?

You make it seem like it's a justification when you start talking about it the way you are.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Those kids are stupid. I don't think there's any world in which it's OK to wish genocide on the Jews.

The elimination of Israel and the killing of all Jews within its borders is one of the core tenets of Hamas.

And their citizens voted for this/Hamas. So by proxy, is anyone supporting Hamas/Palestine not also in favor of this same ideology?

Again, Israel has certainly cranked the dial to 11 on this whole conflict, but let's not ignore the very common fact that large portion of Palestinians want all Jews dead.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by pylon

The elimination of Israel and the killing of all Jews within its borders is one of the core tenets of Hamas.

And their citizens voted for this/Hamas. So by proxy, is anyone supporting Hamas/Palestine not also in favor of this same ideology?

Again, Israel has certainly cranked the dial to 11 on this whole conflict, but let's not ignore the very common fact that large portion of Palestinians want all Jews dead.

People believe this?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by pylon

The elimination of Israel and the killing of all Jews within its borders is one of the core tenets of Hamas.

And their citizens voted for this/Hamas. So by proxy, is anyone supporting Hamas/Palestine not also in favor of this same ideology?

Again, Israel has certainly cranked the dial to 11 on this whole conflict, but let's not ignore the very common fact that large portion of Palestinians want all Jews dead.

Elimination of Israel as a core tenet of Hamas is arguable. The killing of all Jews within the territory is most definitely not.

Even if we are to accept those two items to be core tenets of hamas, is it OK to punish a civilian population for being ruled by a government you don't like? That's kind of the Bin Laden argument. Because of America's transgressions against Muslims, all Americans must pay the price. That's the way a terrorist thinks and behaves.