04-28-2024, 08:25 AM
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#1541
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy
If they thought they had the "secret formula" on this roster right now they wouldn't have tried to throw nearly $700 million at Ohtani or been in serious trade talks for Soto.
They clearly knew the offense was a serious question mark going forward, but the problem is landing either of those two was very unlikely and after them all that was on the market was more serious question marks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy
I know it's always easy to blame the GM or FO when thigs go badly, but I don't blame Atkins or Shapiro for this mess.
It's all on Vlad IMO. He was supposed to be Pujols or Miggy Cabrera and be the MVP bat that drives this offese, but he's flamed out spectacularly and there isn't much you can do to prepare for a disaster like that happening.
I mean yeah, it'd be nice if they developed more homegrown talent but they traded a lot of it to surround Vlad/Bo/Kirk/Springer with talent to win now, but then Vlad/Bo/Kirk/Springer all died on the vine at the same time.
Anyone who says they saw that coming is lying to themselves and living in a hindsight ruled world IMO
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To be clear, the Riccardi days I'm referring to was labelling this a serious contender when it wasn't. In his days he'd sign injury prone guys and cross his fingers. In our case, it's even worse. Our starting lineup has limited upside guys who just do defence right. So when it comes to playoffs or a big situation, the chances are super low that they'll pull through because the lineup can't hit. KK, Varsho (until recently), IKF, Kirk. All have shown nothing but disappointment. I'll give Biggio a pass because 2nd basemen are limited generally across the league for whatever reason. So you have almost half your lineup where there's low chances of them coming through, but all those guys have a limited upside. So what's your realistic chances given those limitations? It was doomed from the start. As for Vlad/Bo/Springer, that's been a tough one because I don't know if anyone at all seen this collapse coming. I do think management made the right call at the time to bring in a guy like Springer, but yeesh, again, buyer be aware that almost no player should be getting a contract passed 5 years.
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04-28-2024, 10:44 AM
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#1542
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Pas, MB
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It would be easy to pin the blame soley on Guerrero if he was the only one struggling but he's not which goes back to why does Guillermo Martínez still have a job? Schneider I would have never removed the interim tag from with how the Seattle series went but I atleast understand why they would give him a year or two after committing.
Some of the issues you can't blame on the front office. But many things you can.
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04-28-2024, 10:48 AM
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#1543
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Franchise Player
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Martinez was also the hitting coach when they were one of the top 5 offenses in MLB for 21 and 22.
I doubt Martinez is telling Vlad to swing at crap pitches outside the zone or to watch mid/mid fastballs go by.
I don't care who the GM is either, if your prime aged core players go from 4-6 WAR players to 1-2 WAR players your team is going to suffer.
It's amazing they even made the playoffs last year.
Last edited by Roof-Daddy; 04-28-2024 at 10:50 AM.
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04-28-2024, 11:09 AM
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#1544
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Pas, MB
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He's not but as I said it's just not one player being stupid. It's multiple players.
A coach's job is to identify the problems and work with the player(s) to correct them. If he cant the team either looks at moving the player or if it's an issue with multiple players finds a new coach.
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04-28-2024, 11:45 AM
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#1545
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy
Martinez was also the hitting coach when they were one of the top 5 offenses in MLB for 21 and 22.
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The Jays also had Dante Bichette with them as a coach… and when he left they started being crap. Coincidence?
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04-28-2024, 11:51 AM
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#1546
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Apartment 5A
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Saying Bo is getting better despite a now 0/18 hitless streak is peak Buck
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04-28-2024, 11:52 AM
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#1547
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Apartment 5A
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Vladdy is ####ing terrible at baseball
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04-28-2024, 11:53 AM
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#1548
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Franchise Player
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He's a disgrace right now
__________________
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. I love power.
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04-28-2024, 11:58 AM
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#1549
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Franchise Player
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They should fire the baserunning coach. I mean Vlad keeps doing it right? Must be the coaches fault.
The guy is just a fun loving dummy that can't make adjustments or learn from his mistakes.
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04-28-2024, 12:00 PM
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#1550
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Apartment 5A
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There is no accountability. That’s not on Vladdy. That’s on the coaches and FO.
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04-28-2024, 12:05 PM
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#1551
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy
I know it's always easy to blame the GM or FO when thigs go badly, but I don't blame Atkins or Shapiro for this mess.
It's all on Vlad IMO. He was supposed to be Pujols or Miggy Cabrera and be the MVP bat that drives this offese, but he's flamed out spectacularly and there isn't much you can do to prepare for a disaster like that happening.
I mean yeah, it'd be nice if they developed more homegrown talent but they traded a lot of it to surround Vlad/Bo/Kirk/Springer with talent to win now, but then Vlad/Bo/Kirk/Springer all died on the vine at the same time.
Anyone who says they saw that coming is lying to themselves and living in a hindsight ruled world IMO
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The issue with Vlad is it doesn't look like he's mentally ready to handle the increased expectations of being a star, nor the changes that the roster and team culture changed that occured the last years. He doesn't look as happy, therefore as comfortable.
That change being losing all his Dominican friends, no HR jacket, and am sure other things behind the scenes changing in the last couple seasons.
That is what the organization could've done better. Stay in tune with players, especially stars , and not let things get to this point. Recognizing and identifying things to make your players, especially ones your tagging as critical star players, tick properly. Not that you have to bend over for any player and give them everything they want, but at the same time if you're in the same breath also now counting on him to be the superstar you need, you probably have to go above and beyond a normal situation a little bit to make sure he's in a good spot off the field.
There was talk of bring Teoscar, his close friend from when he was here, back at the deadline last year. That had legs until it didn't. Same about having him come as a FA. Would they have helped, sure? What that have screwed up the Jays outfield? (ie no Kiermier) maybe?
Anyways, the Vlad problem is a mental thing and I think the assumption was they he was trending up, so they left him on a island and assumed he was fine, and then the changes the organization made around him, affected him significantly more than they thought.
The organization still have the ability to make it right, but now you have Vlad with even more pressure on him to get back to a baseline, nevermind exceed and become a bigger star...and if he wasn't ready for the pressure and change which put him in this spot, it might be tough for him to pull out of being behind the 8 ball, even with whatever he needs to fee comfortable.
Last edited by browna; 04-28-2024 at 12:07 PM.
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04-28-2024, 12:06 PM
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#1552
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Apartment 5A
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Holy ####. A lead.
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04-28-2024, 12:06 PM
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#1553
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KelVarnsen
There is no accountability. That’s not on Vladdy. That’s on the coaches and FO.
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Haha
He's a grown ass man. He can't hold himself accountable and stop making stupid mistakes on his own?
He's just not smart enough to do it.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Roof-Daddy For This Useful Post:
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04-28-2024, 12:11 PM
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#1554
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Is it hot in the Rogers Centre? Kirk looked sweaty even before his at bat and Grove is completely drenched.
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04-28-2024, 12:19 PM
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#1555
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc
Is it hot in the Rogers Centre? Kirk looked sweaty even before his at bat and Grove is completely drenched.
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Not sure about Grove but Kirk probably sweats in his sleep.
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04-28-2024, 12:54 PM
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#1556
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Today’s rainy and overcast but 22 degrees. Feels warm.
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04-28-2024, 12:57 PM
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#1557
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UnModerator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia.
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Muggy in April would be awful.
__________________
THANK MR DEMKOCPHL Ottawa Vancouver
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04-28-2024, 12:58 PM
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#1558
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Commie Referee
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Small town, B.C.
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I absolutely love how Buck and Dan are not-so-subtly ripping Bo and Vlad for going up to the plate and swinging at first pitches after Gausman had a longer inning. 2 pitches, 2 outs. Those two still have a lot of learning and growing up to do. Glad the broadcast talked about it without naming names for a few minutes. And then praised Turner for seeing some pitches.
They were bang on.
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04-28-2024, 01:41 PM
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#1559
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Toronto
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That was a nice first out on Ohtani... Need to get 2 more
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04-28-2024, 01:48 PM
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#1560
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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*deep exhale*...jesus that was close.
__________________
"You know, that's kinda why I came here, to show that I don't suck that much" ~ Devin Cooley, Professional Goaltender
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