[PGT] Flames 6 Arizona 5 - whine about the tank here

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, it's more like if your partner had a drinking problem 20 years ago, and you split up, and you keep having the same trust issues with someone you only met last year.

Blaming the current management for the whole of the last 34 years is ridiculous.

Ha! We said the same thing!

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Ha! We said the same thing!

You said it better.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Why do you keep quoting posts of me explaining I'm only talking about the last 5 games, and then saying things like "we've lost 7 of 9" ...?

prior to the last 5 games, we wanted to win to make the playoffs. for the last 5 games it's been impossible to make the playoffs, so winning no longer matters.

we've treated those games like we're still trying to make the playoffs, and we've gone 3-2 in them

this is my final post in this thread.

smartest thing you have said all day

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't buy for a second that this team is playoff ready for the building to open.

That's a huge reach.

5 years from the trade deadline ... March 8th 2029 is my over/under.

This is how I view it.

Hopefully ownership/management are on the same page and don't try to force it too soon.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, it's more like if your partner had a drinking problem 20 years ago, and you split up, and you keep having the same trust issues with someone you only met last year.

Blaming the current management for the whole of the last 34 years is ridiculous.

And where does ownership fit in this metaphor?

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't buy for a second that this team is playoff ready for the building to open.

That's a huge reach.

5 years from the trade deadline ... March 8th 2029 is my over/under.

in the wise words of Gabriel Garcia Marquez

“It is easier to start a rebuild than to end it.”

[Sylvanfan]

If anything...it's these damn kids screwing things up. Kadri would be mailing it in if Pospisil wasn't forcing him to keep up. Backlund was doing zilch until he had to play with Coronato. Markstrom has been losing his starts. Weegar...well I guess he needs Anderdon and Huberdeau to talk to him about playing too good and the consequences.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But I think to better use your analogy ...

You have a partner that has a drinking problem. You divorce. You date 11 different people, and then eventually get engaged and remarried again. Now when the new spouse, who doesn't have a drinking problem, pours a glass of wine you panic and throw all the bottles in the house out the patio door.

The important part about this analogy is that you are still the same person that was hurt by the actions of a past partner. People develop triggers and trauma that can far outlive their usefulness in avoiding future harm.

It's not a stretch to say Flames fans are traumatized by being fans of this team, even if there is literally no continuity in personnel between the gutting losses to the Oilers in the playoffs in the 80s, to the gutting first round losses of the early 90s, to the decade of darkness when it was impossible to economically compete, watching all of the star talent leave for greener patures, followed by a miracle run that ended in heartbreak (whether you're an "it was in" person or not), followed by another few years of gutting first round losses, followed by another few years of ineptitude, during which time our longest term and bitterest rival gets handed the best player possibly to ever play the game, then another glimmer of hope of being an actually good team ended by a loss to the f$*&ing Oilers and our star players AGAIN leaving for greener pastures.

I hope one can understand the frustration of a few wins in meaningless games being the difference between a 5th or 6th overall pick and much better draft lottery odds versus a 9th or 10th pick and very remote draft lottery.

Then there's the people trying to claim the moral high ground by arguing that winning a few meaningless games after a dismal season is somehow important in light of three and a half decades of performance ranging between dismal to crushingly mediocre to heartbreakingly disappointing.

In many circumstances it feels like it's too much to hope for anything good to ever, ever happen to this team.

And even small things like winning one stupid game against the stupid Coyotes trigger the weight of this third-of-a-century of ineptitude and failure falling down around you like sacks of bricks all over again.

Both sides of this debate are likely blowing its importance out of proportion. I simply don't understand the motivation to try to put a bright shiny face on these wins.

[Bandwagon Surfer]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But I think to better use your analogy ...

You have a partner that has a drinking problem. You divorce. You date 11 different people, and then eventually get engaged and remarried again. Now when the new spouse, who doesn't have a drinking problem, pours a glass of wine you panic and throw all the bottles in the house out the patio door.

Not being with the same partner anymore does make it a better analogy. The issue is the physiological damage that this fanbase has, not what the Flames are doing now. That is what is going to take time to heal, people are going to be getting triggered about this for a while.

The only anology adjustment I would make it that it has only been 1 season with new management, so it is more like the first serious relationship after a bad one. It is probably going to take 3 or so seasons before people really get over it. I bet when it comes time to go for the cup at the end of this rebuild, we are going to get another round of these fears resurfacing.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by traptor

And where does ownership fit in this metaphor?

You mean the late Harley Hotchkiss, the late Doc and B. J. Seaman, the late Normie Kwong, the late Ralph and Sonia Scurfield, and the long-since-sold-out Norm Green?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon Surfer

Not being with the same partner anymore does make it a better analogy. The issue is the physiological damage that this fanbase has, not what the Flames are doing now. That is what is going to take time to heal, people are going to be getting triggered about this for a while.

A lot of us aren't getting triggered at all. It seems to be a loud and persistent minority who fixate on the worst case and imagine that it is doomed to happen forever, because in their distorted memories it happens every year.

I submit that since they and we cheer for the same team, they must have some other underlying damage that the Flames are not responsible for.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

The important part about this analogy is that you are still the same person that was hurt by the actions of a past partner. People develop triggers and trauma that can far outlive their usefulness in avoiding future harm.

It's not a stretch to say Flames fans are traumatized by being fans of this team, even if there is literally no continuity in personnel between the gutting losses to the Oilers in the playoffs in the 80s, to the gutting first round losses of the early 90s, to the decade of darkness when it was impossible to economically compete, watching all of the star talent leave for greener patures, followed by a miracle run that ended in heartbreak (whether you're an "it was in" person or not), followed by another few years of gutting first round losses, followed by another few years of ineptitude, during which time our longest term and bitterest rival gets handed the best player possibly to ever play the game, then another glimmer of hope of being an actually good team ended by a loss to the f$*&ing Oilers and our star players AGAIN leaving for greener pastures.

I hope one can understand the frustration of a few wins in meaningless games being the difference between a 5th or 6th overall pick and much better draft lottery odds versus a 9th or 10th pick and very remote draft lottery.

Then there's the people trying to claim the moral high ground by arguing that winning a few meaningless games after a dismal season is somehow important in light of three and a half decades of performance ranging between dismal to crushingly mediocre to heartbreakingly disappointing.

In many circumstances it feels like it's too much to hope for anything good to ever, ever happen to this team.

And even small things like winning one stupid game against the stupid Coyotes trigger the weight of this third-of-a-century of ineptitude and failure falling down around you like sacks of bricks all over again.

Both sides of this debate are likely blowing its importance out of proportion. I simply don't understand the motivation to try to put a bright shiny face on these wins.

So much hyperbole and out and out lying in this post. Anyone who is "traumatized" by a team who has refused to tank in the past needs to fund a new interest, and quickly. And once again, no one has tried to put a "bright shiny face" on wins. They are just saying that no team loses every game, and the Flames have lost a lot, more than 29 other teams since the TDL.

Man, it's a good think you aren't a Flyers fan, or a Leafs fan, or a Buffalo fan.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So much hyperbole and out and out lying in this post. Anyone who is "traumatized" by a team who has refused to tank in the past needs to fund a new interest, and quickly. And once again, no one has tried to put a "bright shiny face" on wins. They are just saying that no team loses every game, and the Flames have lost a lot, more than 29 other teams since the TDL.

Man, it's a good think you aren't a Flyers fan, or a Leafs fan, or a Buffalo fan.

Lying? Holy moly. Where was I lying? And what is the hyperbole?

People ARE trying to put a shiny face on these wins. There are many people arguing that winning these games is important for the competitive character of the team, the mental outlook over the summer, and other issues. There are many people saying "I will never cheer for losses".

I am not one of the people saying the team should do something different and try to lose. I would hope that no professional organization would do that.

I'm one of the people who is disappointed that we are winning these games, because I see absolutely no upside in beating the Coyotes in game 80 of this season. That's all I am. Disappointed.

As usual.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Lying? Holy moly. Where was I lying? And what is the hyperbole?

People ARE trying to put a shiny face on these wins. There are many people arguing that winning these games is important for the competitive character of the team, the mental outlook over the summer, and other issues. There are many people saying "I will never cheer for losses".

I am not one of the people saying the team should do something different and try to lose. I would hope that no professional organization would do that.

I'm one of the people who is disappointed that we are winning these games, because I see absolutely no upside in beating the Coyotes in game 80 of this season. That's all I am. Disappointed.

As usual.

This is the only thing that is actually getting pushback in this thread

like someone else said, they are 29th out of 32 teams since Mache 8th...if the expectation was for them to be 32nd you are probably disappointed a lot in life and have unrealistic expectations. Considering the roster this has been an epic tank job IMO. Bottom 10 team with multiple picks including firsts gained. What a season for losers!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Lying? Holy moly. Where was I lying? And what is the hyperbole?

People ARE trying to put a shiny face on these wins. There are many people arguing that winning these games is important for the competitive character of the team, the mental outlook over the summer, and other issues. There are many people saying "I will never cheer for losses".

I am not one of the people saying the team should do something different and try to lose. I would hope that no professional organization would do that.

I'm one of the people who is disappointed that we are winning these games, because I see absolutely no upside in beating the Coyotes in game 80 of this season. That's all I am. Disappointed.

As usual.

I quoted the lie and the hyperbole. No one is putting a bright shiny face on losses. They are saying a win or two in a sea of losses is nothing to jump off a cliff over.

The hyperbole is all this “trauma” BS.

[topfiverecords]

The "nothing to jump off a cliff over" brigade sure has gone over an edge.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by dino7c

This is the only thing that is actually getting pushback in this thread

like someone else said, they are 29th out of 32 teams since Mache 8th...if the expectation was for them to be 32nd you are probably disappointed a lot in life and have unrealistic expectations. Considering the roster this has been an epic tank job IMO. Bottom 10 team with multiple picks including firsts gained. What a season for losers!

Which was what the complaint was about before the deadline. That they always finish 15th in the 'mushy middle' and "why can't they be in the bottom 10?". Now that they're in the bottom 10 it's turned into complaining about not being closer to the bottom 5.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon Surfer

Not being with the same partner anymore does make it a better analogy. The issue is the physiological damage that this fanbase has, not what the Flames are doing now. That is what is going to take time to heal, people are going to be getting triggered about this for a while.

The only anology adjustment I would make it that it has only been 1 season with new management, so it is more like the first serious relationship after a bad one. It is probably going to take 3 or so seasons before people really get over it. I bet when it comes time to go for the cup at the end of this rebuild, we are going to get another round of these fears resurfacing.

And honestly I don't have an issue with being traumatized and being angry.

I really don't.

But if I see a lack of logic I think it's within my right to push back on it, because that's my perspective.

I see a very real issue with the market size, the country, and the future of this franchise. They may be the Oakland A's now. But I don't personally see a connection to previous rosters, gms or coaches.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Lying? Holy moly. Where was I lying? And what is the hyperbole?

People ARE trying to put a shiny face on these wins. There are many people arguing that winning these games is important for the competitive character of the team, the mental outlook over the summer, and other issues. There are many people saying "I will never cheer for losses".

I am not one of the people saying the team should do something different and try to lose. I would hope that no professional organization would do that.

I'm one of the people who is disappointed that we are winning these games, because I see absolutely no upside in beating the Coyotes in game 80 of this season. That's all I am. Disappointed.

As usual.

What people are putting a shiny face on wins though?

I don't see not being over the top upset about a win as a shiny face.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Bingo

What people are putting a shiny face on wins though?

I don't see not being over the top upset about a win as a shiny face.

There are some posters who keep saying things like, ‘Get rid of player X because he's never won anything’, and ‘Don't acquire players from team Y because that team isn't a winner’. They don't seem to grasp that even bad teams have good players.

There is a big overlap, it seems to me, between that group of posters and the ones who complain about ‘shiny faces’ and attack people for not being upset about a win.

I wonder if they have made up their minds that the Flames, as a bad team, cannot possibly have any good players, and it's an offence against the rightness of the universe for them to win hockey games.