[PGT] Flames 6 Arizona 5 - whine about the tank here

[TaranakiFlame]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Give the kids more ice time to see what they do with it? Play them in all situations to give them some learning time? Give them opportunity in games that mean #### all?

Ice time from the past two games combined.

Sharangovich - 40:04
Backlund 37:09
Kadri - 36:07
Huberdeau - 34:21
Kuzmenko - 33:53
Zary - 30:53
Mangiapane - 29:00
Coronato - 26:08
Pospisil - 25:49
Hunt - 24:21
Rooney - 22:43
Duehr - 19:25

Weegar - 51:47
Andersson - 45:09
Mironmanov - 42:39
Kylington - 40:24
Pachal - 28:03
Okhotiuk - 25:01

Play more kids. Play the kids more. Play the kids in all situations. Let them get the taste of all aspects of the game in the bigs if that is the type of player you want them to be long term. Rolling out the top PP and top PK in nothing games doesn't provide many learning opportunities for the guys that are the future of the team.

..

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

This part bothers me. In short, the answer to this question is "yes."

The people running the team/org are there to make the right, logical decisions. That's why they're there. What's more important for the good of this franchise? Playing all the vets and trying to win every game so the fans can be "entertained" by the same quality of hockey that failed to make the playoffs? Or... Is it better to "say FU" to all that, and use the post-elimination games as a mini training camp for some of the kids who might've earned it?

What is the downside of cycling vets between the pressbox and the ice for the last 10 games of the season? Are people actually paying money specifically to see Huberdeau play like a 3rd line winger? I think they're paying money in spite of Huberdeau playing. Is a fan being upset because Backlund didn't play in a meaningless game worth icing a vet-heavy lineup full of players that we already know what to expect from?

The only real downside would be in maybe pissing off a few of the players... but here's the thing... a couple things, actually...

1. I'm 100% fine with pissing off Huberdeau. Good, hopefully he demands a trade, so we can inform him of how many teams are willing to trade for him. In fact, hopefully he gets so mad by all of that, that he comes back next season and lights up the league for the first couple months, making it possible to actually get rid of that contract. This is not a downside.

2. It's a pretty easy way of weeding out the players who trully are more interested in themselves than the team. I imagine a guy like Andersson would actually be more mad that we're playing him instead of a younger guy. The players who "get it" and understand/appreciate the importance of using the post-elimination games to help speed up our re-whatever... those are the ones that wouldn't be pissed off at all, and (not coincidentally) are the right kind of players to have on the team.

So... we piss off some fans in the -extremely- short term, and piss off the kind of players we really shouldn't care about pissing off anyway... and in exchange for that, we get some advance looks at some of the kids on the Wranglers, and maybe also pick 5th overall instead of possibly 12th overall.

The point is, the guys that run this whole thing are getting millions of dollars to be the ones that stand up and say... in your words... "fu" to whomever they need to, in order to turn this team around... and turning this team around means getting younger and cheaper and drafting as high as we can, and then using the cap space to KEEP those players (instead of using it to keep an aging winger and letting a franchise player go 4-5 years yearly).

Why have a coach then?

Because no coach is going to want to sit there behind the bench and do a zero achievement job that will be a red mark on his resume.

And which coach would want to come here knowing that management might just suddenly tell them to not do anything and stand around as if they are? Gonna look really great for a coach to go to a next job interview and be like 'honest, i want to win'


None of the tank brigade really have a proper *working* proposal for how you practically do it. Just vibes.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

If you want a better chance of losing then play Huberdeau 30+ mins a night. The kids are the ones winning, well, and Kadri. And Weegar. Guess I’m saying, go purposefully pick the players more likely to lose. Huberdeau and Mangiapane should do the trick.

Top 5 Flames since the deadline

Play Driving (xGF%)

1. Hanley
2. Miromanov
3. Huberdeau
4. Pospisil
5. Weegar

Production (P60 all)

1. Kuzmenko
2. Kadri
3. Sharangovich
4. Huberdeau
5. Pospisil

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Top 5 Flames since the deadline

Play Driving (xGF%)

1. Hanley
2. Miromanov
3. Huberdeau
4. Pospisil
5. Weegar

Production (P60 all)

1. Kuzmenko
2. Kadri
3. Sharangovich
4. Huberdeau
5. Pospisil

Quit bringing facts to narrative man.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Why have a coach then?

Because no coach is going to want to sit there behind the bench and do a zero achievement job that will be a red mark on his resume.

And which coach would want to come here knowing that management might just suddenly tell them to not do anything and stand around as if they are? Gonna look really great for a coach to go to a next job interview and be like 'honest, i want to win'


None of the tank brigade really have a proper *working* proposal for how you practically do it. Just vibes.

Great, what would you do? Keeping in mind that this team is terrible. Terrible.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But the fact of the CBA is that you can't just replace all vets with an AHL roster. There are some rules around callups, roster size and NHL contracts.

Not only that, but the Wranglers have to play their games too.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And no one talked about pissing off players. But the fact of the CBA is that you can't just replace all vets with an AHL roster. There are some rules around callups, roster size and NHL contracts.

Then there’s ice time. NHL vets get pissed when their ice time is taken by younger players who haven’t shown they’re better. Taking vets off the powerplay to put in rookies just so they can get experience would make Calgary an even less appealing destination than it already is.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Great, what would you do? Keeping in mind that this team is terrible. Terrible.

I would do what they are doing: Play the team you have, because you can't change it now, and let the chips fall where they may.

‘But then we'll beat teams like Arizona and Anaheim, and it will ruin our tank!’

Those teams are even worse than the Flames, and they have the exact same incentive to lose.

I hate to break it to you, but there has never been an NHL game in which both teams lost. Somebody always gets the two points.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I would do what they are doing: Play the team you have, because you can't change it now, and let the chips fall where they may.

‘But then we'll beat teams like Arizona and Anaheim, and it will ruin our tank!’

Those teams are even worse than the Flames, and they have the exact same incentive to lose.

I hate to break it to you, but there has never been an NHL game in which both teams lost.

I don't know why you replied. I agree with what you said, and that's pretty much how it goes, since there's teams that are even worse than Calgary at this point. We're not the worst, not by a longshot.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I don't know why you replied. I agree with what you said, and that's pretty much how it goes, since there's teams that are even worse than Calgary at this point. We're not the worst, not by a longshot.

I replied because, with all the posters complaining about the wins, I thought the obvious needed to be restated.

The ‘I hate to break it to you’ was really addressed to those posters. Sorry if I made that unclear.

[Bingo]

The worry about winning is understandable.
The anger from winning is irrational.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Then there’s ice time. NHL vets get pissed when their ice time is taken by younger players who haven’t shown they’re better. Taking vets off the powerplay to put in rookies just so they can get experience would make Calgary an even less appealing destination than it already is.

Honestly if they get pissed, well, only they are responsible for their emotions.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The worry about winning is understandable.
The anger from winning is irrational.

Especially given the team's record since the tdl.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Honestly if they get pissed, well, only they are responsible for their emotions.

Players have a lot of say in where they can play these days. How a team treats its veteran players matters.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Players have a lot of say in where they can play these days. How a team treats its veteran players matters.

Or maybe having emotional manipulators on payroll isn't a good thing.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Great, what would you do? Keeping in mind that this team is terrible. Terrible.

I'm not on team tank.

But I think the only way to become a successful franchise is to try and meet performance standards day in and day out. So if your standard is to want to be a winning team and franchise, then the team you put on the ice has to go out there and play to win.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Or maybe having emotional manipulators on payroll isn't a good thing.

It probably isn’t, but having human beings that experience completely fair emotions, which is what people are talking about, is pretty much unavoidable.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

If you want a better chance of losing then play Huberdeau 30+ mins a night. The kids are the ones winning, well, and Kadri. And Weegar. Guess I’m saying, go purposefully pick the players more likely to lose. Huberdeau and Mangiapane should do the trick.

Yup. The early 4th line of Rooney/Duer/Coronato was their best line. Pospisil was good. Zary was good. That was pretty much it for keeping it remotely close until Kadri got it going and Shaggy/Backlund had a quick flash.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The worry about winning is understandable.
The anger from winning is irrational.

Personally I think a few games isn't going to really make a difference in winning and losing in the minds of
the young players. I worry that we're going to miss out on a good opportunity. You look at Chicago when they already have a very good player and are likely going to get another good one. I think that Chicago will probably be in a position to start winning sooner with better players.

I worry this ship won't bottom out, while some of these other teams have some franchise players.

Wasn't it a few years ago we won a game and missed an opportunity to move up in the draft?

I don't know I think we're so close that the loss of a couple games isn't going to impact the young players that much... If we were losing all season long while not making much effort I would be more concerned. Maybe we still win that lottery!

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Top 5 Flames since the deadline

Play Driving (xGF%)

1. Hanley
2. Miromanov
3. Huberdeau
4. Pospisil
5. Weegar

Production (P60 all)

1. Kuzmenko
2. Kadri
3. Sharangovich
4. Huberdeau
5. Pospisil

What an all-star.

2022-23 Calgary Flames NHL 79 15 40 55 36 2
2023-24 Calgary Flames NHL 79 12 40 52 47 -28