Israel declares war on Hamas

[Azure]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Yet the official statement from the Whitehouse is this:


The bolded part shows a potential major departure from previous policy.

The Biden administration approved the transfer of thousands more bombs to Israel on the same day Israeli airstrikes in Gaza killed seven aid workers for the charity group World Central Kitchen, three U.S. officials told The Washington Post this week after the incident elicited global condemnation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...eapons-israel/

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Israel has killed at least 5000 since the last hostage was recovered on Feb 12th. Even if you are blind enough to think hostage recovery is the goal, you have to admit they are really really ####ty at it. But the reality is these facts tell the truth, they don't actually care about the hostages if they can keep working at their real goal.

Or you have to admit that the hostages are dead, Hamas knows it & Israel knows it, but Hamas can't actually admit it, and Israel is using it to justify their actions.

Or you can act like you actually understand urban conflict. I guess we know what you're doing.

[Zary's-Mustache]

If the hostages are dead it's because Isreal killed them. Hamas gains nothing by killing hostages in Gaza.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Azure

Or you have to admit that the hostages are dead, Hamas knows it & Israel knows it, but Hamas can't actually admit it, and Israel is using it to justify their actions.

Or you can act like you actually understand urban conflict. I guess we know what you're doing.

I understand indiscriminate murder and starvation of a people is wrong, no matter what you pretend the justification is. Are you OK with this continuing, if the hostages are dead?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I understand indiscriminate murder and starvation of a people is wrong, no matter what you pretend the justification is. Are you OK with this continuing, if the hostages are dead?

As the owner of one of those duct cleaning companies that makes cold calls and an expert in urban warfare, I’m sure he’s just fine with it.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Azure

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...eapons-israel/

Yes, but this press release happened after that approval. Again, it's just a statement, but Biden may have threatened to cancel weapons shipments to Israel if Netanyahu doesn't change how he prosecutes this war. Reading the statement from the Whitehouse indicates that the aljazeera report is plausible.

[Bagor]

Azure guide to Urban warfare.

Drop indiscriminate 2000 pounders in residential areas.
Anyone waving a white flag gets it.
People scrambling to retrieve food aid are serious threats and must be exterminated.
Run over any bodies in a tank.
Young children are excellent lures to execute paramedics.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I think it's pretty clear that the Netanyahu government is bordering on rogue state status, if they haven't already reached it. Similar to the situation in Russia with Putin, he needs to be removed from power, along with the extremist elements in his cabinet, for there to be any hope.

And it begins.

The process of trying to restore Israel's global image by trying to put it solely on Netanyahu and his government. Just a few "extremist elements" we're supposed to believe.

Let's try and make the world forget the barbaric behaviour of the psycho soldiers on the ground, the sick minds of those that defended and continue to defend this genocide, those that gathered at the border to block aid and celebrate starvation.

And those "extremist elements". They were elected by the citizens of Israel.

It's ok to label all Palestinians because they had a Hamas government but an equally sick,depraved, blood thirsty Israeli government? They're supposed to be separate from the people that voted them in.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I think it's pretty clear that the Netanyahu government is bordering on rogue state status, if they haven't already reached it. Similar to the situation in Russia with Putin, he needs to be removed from power, along with the extremist elements in his cabinet, for there to be any hope.

I think, unfortunately, this goes beyond Netanyahu at this point. Look at the rhetoric coming out of the potential candidates to replace Bibi. Gantz, Bennet, Lieberman? They're all the same, or potentially worse. Maybe Lapid could be better, but he'll have to work with the above mentioned individuals to make his government work.

If you were to to drop a 2000lb bomb on the Kremlin, you would think the Russians would elect someone better than Putin to replace him. With Israel, I don't believe it.

What Israel needs is a revolutionary change, akin to South Africa or post Nazi Germany.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Bagor

And it begins.

The process of trying to restore Israel's global image by trying to put it solely on Netanyahu and his government. Just a few "extremist elements" we're supposed to believe.

Let's try and make the world forget the barbaric behaviour of the psycho soldiers on the ground, the sick minds of those that defended and continue to defend this genocide, those that gathered at the border to block aid and celebrate starvation.

And those "extremist elements". They were elected by the citizens of Israel.

It's ok to label all Palestinians because they had a Hamas government but an equally sick,depraved, blood thirsty Israeli government? They're supposed to be separate from the people that voted them in.

Red Slinger is pretty fair, and definitely shouldn’t be lumped in with the Azure/Beinho/Manhattan/etc crowd.

I genuinely do not believe him to be someone who believes really any of what you’ve attributed to him here. He’s right that Netanyahu and the current Israeli government are very much the drivers of this. I don’t think it’s an attempt to restore Israel’s image by pointing this out. I might if there were excuses being made for having and keeping this government in power, but he hasn’t done that.

While this conflict and the horrible things that have happened to Palestinians pre-date this government, we shouldn’t forget how damaging and responsible they are for what we’ve seen.

[TheIronMaiden]

The saddest part of the discussion is we know that the worst is yet to come.

They are yet to hit 30 degree weather, with shelter and water shortages.

[Bagor]

We can agree to disagree on that Pepsi.

Presents himself as a promoter of good faith then throws out some cheap unfounded allegations in this thread that Hamas was being presented as victims.

When the reality is that he tried to represent Hamas and the Palestinian people as one and the same. Being on the same "side".

Now, when the world has expressed its disgust and revulsion with Israel and their reputation is in tatters it's different. Whereas Hamas and the Palestinians are one and the same Israel's behaviour is the result of some "extremist elements".

[Doctorfever]

https://apple.news/A3_ydNpdjRmKXSFXHgeidng

The IDF fired two senior officers and reprimanded a top commander as it admitted a catalog of failures in a drone strike on an aid convoy in Gaza, including that it killed aid workers who had survived an initial attack.
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said Friday that “those who approved the strike were convinced that they were targeting armed Hamas operatives,” calling the attack “a grave mistake stemming from a serious failure due to a mistaken identification.”

The charity said it is “clear from their preliminary investigation that the IDF has deployed deadly force without regard to its own protocols, chain of command and rules of engagement.”
“Their apologies for the outrageous killing of our colleagues represent cold comfort,” WCK CEO Erin Gore said. “It’s cold comfort for the victims’ families and WCK’s global family.”

On Friday, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who has himself called for a third-party inquiry, said the US was reviewing Israel’s report “very carefully.”
“It’s very important that Israel is taking full responsibility for this incident. It’s also important that it appears to be taking steps to hold those responsible accountable,” he said, adding that “even more important is making sure that steps are taken going forward to ensure that something like this can never happen again.”

At least some action being taken. Obviously too late for these workers.

[Zary's-Mustache]

What action? Being fired isn't action.

Bring on the criminal charges.

[TheIronMaiden]

All that proves is that they will systematically kill anyone they please with no consequences.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

https://apple.news/A3_ydNpdjRmKXSFXHgeidng







At least some action being taken. Obviously too late for these workers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68742572

The aid workers had been overseeing the distribution of food aid that had arrived on a ship from Cyprus and unloaded at a recently constructed jetty in the northern Gaza strip. Under coordination with the IDF, the World Central Kitchen team were transferring these supplies to a warehouse a few kilometres further south.

During this process, the IDF says their drone operators spotted a gunman riding on the roof of a large aid lorry that was being escorted by the WCK team. They played those of us at the briefing a somewhat blurry video - which has not been released to the public - showing a figure holding a gun, on top of the lorry. At one point the gun is fired, showing up clearly on the slowed-down black and white footage.

At this stage the military contacts World Central Kitchen but they are in turn unable to reach the team on the ground - where phone communication is patchy and aid agencies say they are prohibited by the IDF from using radios.

The drone footage also appears to confirm that at night, the stickers on the roof of the World Central Kitchen vehicles, with the charity's logo, are not visible to the drone operator.

Not so surprisingly, not as clear cut as you are making it out to be. Actual gunman shooting from the roof of one of the vehicles, who are driving at night where the markings cannot be seen.

Horrible and tragic incident. Far from purposeful targeting of aid workers. I would like to see an explanation from WCK as to why there was a gunman firing from the roof of one of their vehicles.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by blankall

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68742572



Not so surprisingly, not as clear cut as you are making it out to be. Actual gunman shooting from the roof of one of the vehicles, who are driving at night where the markings cannot be seen.

Horrible and tragic incident. Far from purposeful targeting of aid workers. I would like to see an explanation from WCK as to why there was a gunman firing from the roof of one of their vehicles.

Questioning WCK is your response? You are not questioning the report from the drone operators that killed those people?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by blankall

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68742572



Not so surprisingly, not as clear cut as you are making it out to be. Actual gunman shooting from the roof of one of the vehicles, who are driving at night where the markings cannot be seen.

Horrible and tragic incident. Far from purposeful targeting of aid workers. I would like to see an explanation from WCK as to why there was a gunman firing from the roof of one of their vehicles.

It's not an accident, stop being an apologist for murderers. It's ####ing gross. Knock it off.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's not an accident, stop being an apologist for murderers. It's ####ing gross. Knock it off.

How is it murder, if there's a gunman, on what appears to be an unmarked vehicle, firing from the vehicle? Murder is intention. If the operators are under the impression, wrong or not, that they are firing on gunmen, that's not intentional.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Questioning WCK is your response? You are not questioning the report from the drone operators that killed those people?

This was not a report from the operators. This was statements from many independent journalists who saw the footage. Specifically, I'm referencing a BBC journalist who said he "clearly" saw a gun being fired from the roof of one of the vehicles.