American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by GGG

So why in your response to my post was Trumps name mentioned at all? Even in this post you come back to the Trump is worse to conclude your argument.

We all agree Trump is worse. What’s the point in stating it everytime.


But yes that does look like a president that is being rolled out for a dog and pony show.

The reality of how much worse Trump is than Biden, is the most important information to glean from this discussion. But it's a reality that you keep deflecting from and refuse to acknowledge head on.

Comparing Trump to Biden is like comparing a steamy dog turd to a DQ ice cream cake that's maybe been in the freezer too long. "Hey guys, I'm admitting that the cake tastes better, aren't I so fair and balanced?"

Yeah fair and balanced with your amazing insight, when you spend 90% of your time talking about how bad the cake tastes.

Trump is hell bent on ending democracy - I'll mention him as many times as I think is necessary.

You clearly have an axe to grind with Biden, and you see bashing him as more important than preserving the very rights and freedoms you take for granted every day. So I don't know where your priorities are or if you're even having this discussion in good faith.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by opendoor

MAGA zealots don't decide the election nor do they make up a large enough contingent to significantly impact Biden's approval rating or vote share. They're already voting Trump no matter what just like they did in 2020.

Biden is faltering because he has lost ground among the demographics that won him the last election, like suburban voters, nonwhite working class, etc. For whatever reason, those groups are increasingly supporting Trump. Combine that with a lack of enthusiasm among Democrats for Biden's candidacy and it's a pretty ugly scenario.

I guess I just don't follow the logic. Trump is awful, incompetent, and holds the record for the Presidential candidate with the lowest favorability rating in history. But at the same time the guy who's trailing him despite having the incumbent's advantage is a good candidate?

The simple answer is that the Trump team is winning the propaganda war.

That and Biden is getting all the blame for inflation that he did not cause.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

The reality of how much worse Trump is than Biden, is the most important information to glean from this discussion. But it's a reality that you keep deflecting from and refuse to acknowledge head on.

Comparing Trump to Biden is like comparing a steamy dog turd to a DQ ice cream cake that's maybe been in the freezer too long. "Hey guys, I'm admitting that the cake tastes better, aren't I so fair and balanced?"

Yeah fair and balanced with your amazing insight, when you spend 90% of your time talking about how bad the cake tastes.

Trump is hell bent on ending democracy - I'll mention him as many times as I think is necessary.

You clearly have an axe to grind with Biden, and you see bashing him as more important than preserving the very rights and freedoms you take for granted every day. So I don't know where your priorities are or if you're even having this discussion in good faith.

I have no axe to grind with Biden. He is better than Trump, he is not a threat to democracy. Are there any other shibboleths you’d like me to utter to demonstrate my belonging to the I hate Trump club because I most definitely agree with all your opinions on that. Do you have to state I hate the oilers before I offer any criticism of the flames? Do you have to praise the flames because the oilers are so terrible?.

You and I both know that a 81 year old is not the ideal choice for the president of the United States. There should be laws to prevent it. No one should be running post 65.

I’m also pretty sure that Calgary Puck posts by a Canadian have zero affect on any discourse around the presidential election let alone the outcome of one vote so save me your bull#### about bashing him being more important than rights and freedoms. Thats a really odd conclusion to draw.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

The simple answer is that the Trump team is winning the propaganda war.

That and Biden is getting all the blame for inflation that he did not cause.

This is typical of every presidential election in history you win or lose based economic conditions you had little part in creating.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by GGG

I have no axe to grind with Biden. He is better than Trump, he is not a threat to democracy. Are there any other shibboleths you’d like me to utter to demonstrate my belonging to the I hate Trump club because I most definitely agree with all your opinions on that. Do you have to state I hate the oilers before I offer any criticism of the flames? Do you have to praise the flames because the oilers are so terrible?.

You and I both know that a 81 year old is not the ideal choice for the president of the United States. There should be laws to prevent it. No one should be running post 65.

I’m also pretty sure that Calgary Puck posts by a Canadian have zero affect on any discourse around the presidential election let alone the outcome of one vote so save me your bull#### about bashing him being more important than rights and freedoms. Thats a really odd conclusion to draw.

You moan on and on about Biden's age, and make up stories about him being a corpse and "his handlers are doing his job for him". At the same time you simply say "Trump is worse than Biden" without paying attention to the magnitude of difference between them. So maybe you come across as someone who is trying to muddy the waters to benefit Trump. Please understand that this is not some normal election like Obama vs Romney or something; this election is existential.

And no I don't buy into the idea that nothing posted on CP could ever possibly impact anything in the real world. You just never know how things read on here can impact how people think about things, which affects how they talk about things to other people, which impacts how they talk to other people, and so on. Besides, we live in the age of AI and ChatGPT. Any text posted online could be used as training data.

Simply put, truth is truth, lies are lies, and nonsense is nonsense, regardless of where it's being shared. If I want to call something out I'll call it out. When people call out things I've posted, I welcome that too.

Originally Posted by GGG

This is typical of every presidential election in history you win or lose based economic conditions you had little part in creating.

Sure. But how does this square with the idea that "Biden is a bad candidate"?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GGG

This is typical of every presidential election in history you win or lose based economic conditions you had little part in creating.

While it's hard to definitely prove that Bidens administration is a significant reason US economy is doing so well, I think arguing the opposite would be even harder, and not just because proving a negative is harder.

The most common way of assessing an administration is looking at results relative to other economies, and there the story is really clear. The US economy is in top shape at a time when most other big economies are actually doing quite poorly.

EDIT: Just in general, whether you compare administrations or red v blue states, there's almost no point in debating who has overall better economic policies, it's just so obviously the Dems. Which is of course why the GOP is year by year leaning more heavily into culture war and religion, it's basically all they've got.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Itse

While it's hard to definitely prove that Bidens administration is a significant reason US economy is doing so well, I think arguing the opposite would be even harder, and not just because proving a negative is harder.

The most common way of assessing an administration is looking at results relative to other economies, and there the story is really clear. The US economy is in top shape at a time when most other big economies are actually doing quite poorly.

EDIT: Just in general, whether you compare administrations or red v blue states, there's almost no point in debating who has overall better economic policies, it's just so obviously the Dems. Which is of course why the GOP is year by year leaning more heavily into culture war and religion, it's basically all they've got.

I’m speaking in general, not specific to Biden. We attribute the success or failure of the current economy to the current president when they have little control.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...licans/375180/

Pay walled and old but a solid article on the topic. I think in general we can say Biden didn’t destroy the economy (Like Nixon did) but the long term affects of say the infrastructure plan won’t be seen for a decade.

[photon]

A Dem won an election in Alabama yesterday.. won by 25 points in a district that she lost in 2022 by 7 points. A district Trump was +1 in.

Even the campaigns' internal polling had the race close or the Republican leading, so another complete miss by polls.

She ran on reproductive rights. I mean Alabama's recent IVF stuff maybe made this even more prime for this candidate at this time but hard not to think that Dems really need to make this stuff part of their campaigns.

[Old Yeller]

Originally Posted by rubecube

More shameless GOP crap.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1772659868043735261

This happens constantly with the GOP, I'm glad they're starting to get called out on it... even if I doubt it has any impact on their base.

I don't really understand why people vote for GOP anymore except to be loyal to a party that may be eating your face. With the state results in Alabama yesterday, I hope voters are starting to come around on that.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

The simple answer is that the Trump team is winning the propaganda war.

This is such an arrogant and dismissive answer.

[Paulie Walnuts]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1772926478621003913

Get your credit cards out.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

https://twitter.com/user/status/1772926478621003913



Get your credit cards out.

Not sure why they're using the Qur'an as an example. Right-wing Christians and Fox News would be apoplectic if Biden or Obama pulled this #### with the Bible.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

https://twitter.com/user/status/1772926478621003913

Get your credit cards out.

This will sell like hotcakes

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by rubecube

This is such an arrogant and dismissive answer.

What am I dismissing?

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

https://twitter.com/user/status/1772926478621003913

Get your credit cards out.

does it come with Stormy Daniels as the centerfold?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

What am I dismissing?

People can have legitimate reasons for being disappointed in the Biden presidency. It doesn't mean they've been duped by the Trump propaganda machine.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1773069246441853027

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by rubecube

People can have legitimate reasons for being disappointed in the Biden presidency. It doesn't mean they've been duped by the Trump propaganda machine.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1773069246441853027

Sure people can be disappointed, no problem. They can wish and pray that there was a better option. But if, on election day, they see the two (three?) options and don’t consider Biden to be the better of them, and Biden loses, then yes it is on those voters.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by rubecube

People can have legitimate reasons for being disappointed in the Biden presidency. It doesn't mean they've been duped by the Trump propaganda machine.

FWIW, I didn't interpret the comment as implying that anyone was getting duped, simply that Trumps campaign has been winning the battle of the airwaves. I personally think that's true. Moreso that the Biden team is losing it compared to Trump winning it. One of the biggest knocks on Biden, and I think a bit reason his approval rating has been in the toilet for so long, is the economy. Many of us on here can understand, and have posted, that while not great, the US has done better post COVID than most leading economies. Additionally, some of the hardships being felt by working Americans are the result of Trump tax cuts ending for working Americans while being forever for the wealthy. IMO, the Biden campaign has not done a good job at trying to explain the nuance of the economic issues.

Certainly the standard caveat remains that for Trump supporters facts and logic don't go very far. But certainly for moderates this messaging is important. Aside from the potential Gaza fallout if the far left does decide to stay home in November, I think this messaging should be the number 1 priority of the campaign. Instead it seems like we mostly hear about how Trump will kill democracy forever. I just don't think that resonates as well with the public as it feels like the boy who cried wolf as it is the same we have been hearing for a decade.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by rubecube

People can have legitimate reasons for being disappointed in the Biden presidency. It doesn't mean they've been duped by the Trump propaganda machine.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1773069246441853027

completely disagree with this tweet. If America in November decides that it wants 4 more years of Trump, it will be 100 percent on the voters. I understand that Biden is far from a perfect candidate and I understand if some people are disappointed with him, but if the choice is between him and the clown show that is Trump, there shouldn't even be a discussion as to who the sensible choice is here.

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by devo22

does it come with Stormy Daniels as the centerfold?

Close - it’s Danielle Smith!