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Old 03-26-2024, 05:17 PM   #5661
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How about the West Bank? Is that wrong?
It is and led by the far right. Which many Israelis are not apart of

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Old 03-26-2024, 08:03 PM   #5662
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So if this starts to happen are you going to join global condemnation of Israel? That is to you Beninho and Blankell.
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Old 03-26-2024, 09:15 PM   #5663
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I have a feeling Azure and Blankall are the type of individials that call anyone that speaks Spanish or Portuguese "Mexicans".
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Old 03-26-2024, 09:17 PM   #5664
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So if this starts to happen are you going to join global condemnation of Israel? That is to you Beninho and Blankell.
Not in a million years, manhattanfan, either, Incapable.
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Old 03-26-2024, 09:22 PM   #5665
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I have a feeling Azure and Blankall are the type of individials that call anyone that speaks Spanish or Portuguese "Mexicans".
The worst part of that argument about Gaza and Egyptians not opening their borders is the way Israel supporters frame it.

Pretty much saying "palestinians are such savages even other arabs won't help them"

No matter what beninho says, Egyptians are factually not arabs. Egyptians don't like being called arabs. Because they're not.
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Old 03-26-2024, 09:41 PM   #5666
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The worst part of that argument about Gaza and Egyptians not opening their borders is the way Israel supporters frame it.

Pretty much saying "palestinians are such savages even other arabs won't help them"

No matter what beninho says, Egyptians are factually not arabs. Egyptians don't like being called arabs. Because they're not.
Keep making up your own history

Egyptians were Arabized. Regardless it is tangential towards the conversation and your entire post was full of historical misinformation.

As for the question if Israel would begin to have settlers in Gaza I would be against it, the likelihood of that occurring is slim to none. I have already stated my disdain for the far right elements of Israeli politics, especially with the religious fundamentalists. I would prefer them out of government and for the settlements to stop expanding as it impedes peace.
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Old 03-26-2024, 09:48 PM   #5667
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Keep making up your own history

Egyptians were Arabized. Regardless it is tangential towards the conversation and your entire post was full of historical misinformation.

As for the question if Israel would begin to have settlers in Gaza I would be against it, the likelihood of that occurring is slim to none. I have already stated my disdain for the far right elements of Israeli politics, especially with the religious fundamentalists. I would prefer them out of government and for the settlements to stop expanding as it impedes peace.
Why is it slim to none? It's literally still happening in the West Bank right now.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...nt-2024-03-22/
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Old 03-26-2024, 09:57 PM   #5668
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Any update on whether hamas has agreed to unconditionally release the hostages they kidnapped?
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Old 03-26-2024, 10:07 PM   #5669
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Any update on whether hamas has agreed to unconditionally release the hostages they kidnapped?
Probably not until the genocide stops.
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Old 03-27-2024, 03:27 AM   #5670
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The same old song and dance as the last 30+ years.

Start a war, and then cry wolf.


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Old 03-27-2024, 03:29 AM   #5671
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Probably not until the genocide stops.

I guess if Israel did nothing this whole time and had just asked nicely, Hamas would have returned them.


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Old 03-27-2024, 04:58 AM   #5672
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I guess if Israel did nothing this whole time and had just asked nicely, Hamas would have returned them.


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105 hostages have been released through hostage exchange.

3 hostages have been confirmed to be shot by IDF. 4 hostages have been returned by Hamas unilaterally. Somewhere between 18 and 70 additional hostages are estimated to have died during the operation.

3 hostages have been rescued by IDF.

So the absolutely most positive take on the success of the military operation, one where we make the very unlikely assumption that zero hostages have died in the bombardment that has turned Gaza into ruins, is that it has rescued as many hostages as it has been confirmed to kill, and has literally released less hostages than Hamas has just let go on their own.

Either the operation has been a massive failure, or it was never about the hostages.

EDIT: Israel has a reputation for having some of the best special forces and intelligence organizations in the world. I think if you let them have a crack at it they could have done better than 3 hostages rescued and 300-1000 soldiers killed (IDF vs. Hamas numbers), at least 2000 permanently disabled and another 4000 wounded in rehab. And that's just the soldiers and police.

Then there's the displaced (hundreds of thousands of Israeli and 70,000 in Lebanon), the accidentally(?) killed Egyptian border guards, escalation of violence with Hezbollah, the absolute decimation if Israels international reputation, the war crime investigations, the estimated $2bn in additional direct financial costs (not counting work hours lost due to hundreds of thousands of working age people being dradted let alone the cost of crisis aftercare), the damage done to Israels trade, and the overall rise of anti-Israel sentiment and antisemitism that the attack on Gaza has caused especially in the Muslim world, after what had been a period of generally easing tensions between Israel and it’s neighbours.

Even completely discounting the obvious moral evil that is the genocide of Palestinians, it's been a really stupid and costly war that will keep hurting Israel for generations.

Last edited by Itse; 03-27-2024 at 06:28 AM.
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Old 03-27-2024, 07:05 AM   #5673
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105 hostages have been released through hostage exchange.

3 hostages have been confirmed to be shot by IDF. 4 hostages have been returned by Hamas unilaterally. Somewhere between 18 and 70 additional hostages are estimated to have died during the operation.

3 hostages have been rescued by IDF.

So the absolutely most positive take on the success of the military operation, one where we make the very unlikely assumption that zero hostages have died in the bombardment that has turned Gaza into ruins, is that it has rescued as many hostages as it has been confirmed to kill, and has literally released less hostages than Hamas has just let go on their own.

Either the operation has been a massive failure, or it was never about the hostages.

EDIT: Israel has a reputation for having some of the best special forces and intelligence organizations in the world. I think if you let them have a crack at it they could have done better than 3 hostages rescued and 300-1000 soldiers killed (IDF vs. Hamas numbers), at least 2000 permanently disabled and another 4000 wounded in rehab. And that's just the soldiers and police.

Then there's the displaced (hundreds of thousands of Israeli and 70,000 in Lebanon), the accidentally(?) killed Egyptian border guards, escalation of violence with Hezbollah, the absolute decimation if Israels international reputation, the war crime investigations, the estimated $2bn in additional direct financial costs (not counting work hours lost due to hundreds of thousands of working age people being dradted let alone the cost of crisis aftercare), the damage done to Israels trade, and the overall rise of anti-Israel sentiment and antisemitism that the attack on Gaza has caused especially in the Muslim world, after what had been a period of generally easing tensions between Israel and it’s neighbours.

Even completely discounting the obvious moral evil that is the genocide of Palestinians, it's been a really stupid and costly war that will keep hurting Israel for generations.

You make some pretty good points.

Unfortunately, after 10/7, it became not just about the hostages. Whether that was the right move or not can obviously be debated.

It’s very clear that Israel had a monumental ###### up in letting 10/7 happen. Hamas’s hostage demands have also traditionally been extremely one sided, in terms of numbers. They would have wanted thousands of prisoners released in exchange for releasing all the hostages held. It’s absolutely asinine that Israel messed up so badly to allow so many hostages to be taken. In 2011, Israel released 1,027 prisoners in exchange for just Gilad Shalit. And who was one of those releases? Sinwar. Who perpetrated 10/7.

Despite Israel’s aim of releasing the hostages, I don’t know if there was the appetite to make the same mistake again. Is that terrible if you’re a family of a hostage, knowing the government won’t take any deal, after the government has already let you down? It’s why there’s daily protests from the families. It’s a terrible position to be in.

I guess what I’m saying is, yes - you could be right. A prisoner exchange (very unfavorable terms to Israel) could have been done, of course. But I think Israel was so blindsided by what happened that the government, and even most of the population, had so much seething anger, that war was inevitable, with the aim of taking Hamas out. It’s why you had reservists from all over the world willfully flying back to Israel to enlist. I’m not getting into whether their war effort has been moral or their strategy and civilian kill ratio is appropriate, but just giving my 2 cents as why I think simply “negotiating” their way to release the hostages did not transpire.


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Old 03-27-2024, 07:23 AM   #5674
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They literally have spent billions of dollars building walls and fortifying its border. If the size of their border was as small as the one between egypt and Gaza not a single Mexican would get in illegally. The sheer size of the us mexico border is the only reason some get through.

Also Egyptians are not arabs nor related to palestine except for color of skin and religion.

They are not responsible for the genocide Israel is committing.

It's the israel supporters favorite arguing point "look at those other arabs, they won't even help palestinians" kind of insinuating because they are somehow savages that even their own kind won't help.

Again, egyptians are not arabs. Two spanish speaking Christian countries do not have the same people living in it. Egypt and Gaza are not the same.
Trump said he's building a wall. A big portion of the wall was built, while everyone laughed at him. Then Biden became President and a lot of it was stopped.

Texas wants to build a wall, the feds are stopping them.

They can't even agree to put up razer wire.

Money is no object. There are long stretches where the US could 100% shut down all migrant traffic, even without a wall.

So keep spinning.

There is a reason Egypt not only has a wall, but is fortifying it each year. Once you figure out why, you'll understand the situation a little better.

Which you know I've said before, but everyone is so caught up in the "BLAME ISRAEL" part of the equation that they can't see past it.
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Old 03-27-2024, 07:25 AM   #5675
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How about the West Bank? Is that wrong?
Of course its wrong. Its all wrong.

But while every other nation in the area sits quiet and does nothing, Israel will do whatever it wants, including bombing Gaza, Lebanon, West Bank, everything.
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Old 03-27-2024, 07:26 AM   #5676
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Probably not until the genocide stops.
So you are saying that Hamas is justified in what they did.

Not surprising, considering your post history.
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Old 03-27-2024, 07:28 AM   #5677
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Of course its wrong. Its all wrong.

But while every other nation in the area sits quiet and does nothing, Israel will do whatever it wants, including bombing Gaza, Lebanon, West Bank, everything.
So if Israel is going to commit atrocities, what do you have against Canada standing against that? Should we not condemn that in the strongest possible way?
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Old 03-27-2024, 07:31 AM   #5678
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So if Israel is going to commit atrocities, what do you have against Canada standing against that? Should we not condemn that in the strongest possible way?
lol, Canada.

What a joke.
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Old 03-27-2024, 07:35 AM   #5679
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You make some pretty good points.

Unfortunately, after 10/7, it became not just about the hostages. Whether that was the right move or not can obviously be debated.
Until Israel made it perfectly clear this really had nothing to do with the hostages, people were saying it very much was just about the hostages:

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Hamas can stop this, by releasing the hostages.

100 days…
My point, I guess, would be that it’s difficult to come into this conversation and watch people defend Israel until they without a shade of a doubt prove they can’t be defended on a certain point, and then those people just shift the goalposts instead of thinking “hey, if I was wrong about that, maybe I should evaluate my thinking on the entire conflict.”
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Old 03-27-2024, 08:03 AM   #5680
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lol, Canada.

What a joke.
Ironic with someone with a canada flag as their avatar.
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