Can we, respectfully, drop all of this discussion please? This is absolutely not the thread for it.
I'm only quoting you but there are others.
I think it absolutely is. Since it’s likely the reason it happened. And he was part of the class action suit against the league due to CTE issues… and his family is blaming CTE…
I guess you can tell the doctors and scientists who have studied human behaviour, psychology, and the brain that it’s actually infantilizing to suggest young adults aren’t the best evaluators of risk nor make the best decisions.
But hey, he’s an adult, and we all know everyone has all the experience and brain development they need as soon as they become an adult, so it’s all good
So to what extent do you limit their decision-making? Are they allowed to drive a 2000 or 3000kg killing machine at 110 km/hr?
It's not even a decision thing; it's a workplace safety issue.
If a bunch of people were dying from the same issues on construction sites, would anyone say "they knew the risks & made a choice"?
Of course not. Expectations would be on the job sites to be as safe as possible.
It's silly to suggest this is all just a choice.
Comparisons to boxing are also stupid. Those fighters wear head gear through the amateur ranks and learn how to take punches. They also don't fall onto a rock hard sheet of ice for their head to bounce off.
The ratio of NHL fighters with these problems is far greater than boxers.
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You're failing to make an actual point. What are you saying here, exactly? That just younger NHL players shouldn't be fighting?
That’s when they make this so called “free decision” to fight. And there aren’t very many old NHL fighters anyway.
It’s you who are failing to make a point. People are saying hockey culture needs to change. And rules could help that. Your argument is “it’s allowed”.
I don't think its fair to simplify the decision for guys like Rempe. If he didn't fight, he wouldn't be in the NHL and making hundreds of thousands. Same with a lot of guys mentioned in this thread.
He is damaging himself for a chance at fame and money. You can argue about whether or not the league should allow it, but tons of people are willing to put themselves at risk for a lot less fame and money than these guys get.
I would guess for every 50 year old NHL fighter who's in rough shape and regretting it, there is probably a similar amount of 50 year old guys who if they could go back and make the NHL by fighting - they would do it.
That’s when they make this so called “free decision” to fight. And there aren’t very many old NHL fighters anyway.
It’s you who are failing to make a point. People are saying hockey culture needs to change. And rules could help that. Your argument is “it’s allowed”.
He actually is making his point. You just disagree with it so vehemently that you can't bring yourself to acknowledge it.
If you don't allow 21-year-olds to make their own career decisions, who should be making those decisions instead? At what age do you allow them to make such decisions? Do you ever? Is a 25-year-old who has never made his own decisions suddenly fit to start making them for himself? A 30-year-old? Are the only people fit to make the decision those who are too old to do anything about it?
People get worked up about fights in hockey, but more players get concussions as a result of ordinary hits, collisions while skating at speed, and even simple falls. Do we ban hockey altogether because of that? I know there are people who want to ban gridiron football.
Where do you stop, and do you ever stop?
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I don't think its fair to simplify the decision for guys like Rempe. If he didn't fight, he wouldn't be in the NHL and making hundreds of thousands. Same with a lot of guys mentioned in this thread.
He is damaging himself for a chance at fame and money. You can argue about whether or not the league should allow it, but tons of people are willing to put themselves at risk for a lot less fame and money than these guys get.
I would guess for every 50 year old NHL fighter who's in rough shape and regretting it, there is probably a similar amount of 50 year old guys who if they could go back and make the NHL by fighting - they would do it.
And does anyone actually believe he's not cognisant of exactly what the potential ramifications are?
So to what extent do you limit their decision-making? Are they allowed to drive a 2000 or 3000kg killing machine at 110 km/hr?
What is your point? If you drive that vehicle negligently, ending someone's life prematurely, you can be charged with manslaughter. "Hey, look at this Red Herring I found!!!"
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"You know, that's kinda why I came here, to show that I don't suck that much" ~ Devin Cooley, Professional Goaltender
I don't think anyone's arguing that if it's within the rules, then you can allow the 21 year old to make the decision.
The argument is the NHL (and all hockey organizations) should update their rules to take out fighting. What purpose does it serve now in winning a hockey game? Last i checked, it doesn't impact how many goals are scored.
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What is your point? If you drive that vehicle negligently, ending someone's life prematurely, you can be charged with manslaughter. "Hey, look at this Red Herring I found!!!"
We entrust 17-year-olds here in New South Wales with the ability to pilot vehicles that can easily kill people in seconds if mishandled. Yet a 21-year-old is unable to think for himself, and take punches - potentially earning millions and setting himself up for life - should he choose to do it? It just boggles the mind.
What is your point? If you drive that vehicle negligently, ending someone's life prematurely, you can be charged with manslaughter. "Hey, look at this Red Herring I found!!!"
If you DON'T drive that vehicle negligently, you can still end someone's life prematurely, including your own. How many fatal accidents actually result in manslaughter charges? A tiny minority.
You're the one with the red herring here.
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To piggyback on Jay Random's post, at what age are you allowed to make career decisions? I'm pretty sure everybody on this board made a career decision of some sort between the ages of 16 and 18.
To piggyback on Jay Random's post, at what age are you allowed to make career decisions? I'm pretty sure everybody on this board made a career decision of some sort between the ages of 16 and 18.
Yup, and all of them have health and safety protocols that have been written in the blood of workers before them. To stop needless deaths. Because young workers will do whatever it takes to remain employed.
We entrust 17-year-olds here in New South Wales with the ability to pilot vehicles that can easily kill people in seconds if mishandled. Yet a 21-year-old is unable to think for himself, and take punches, should he choose to do it? It just boggles the mind.
Good point. We should raise the driving age to 25, when their brains are fully developed. Then we should make them pass an ethics exam before getting a license. In fact, we shouldn't allow anyone under that age to make a decision for themselves ever. /s
Nobody is arguing that he doesn't have the free will to make the choice, but as Winsor put it so eloquently, this isn't about free choice, this is about workplace safety. It's the league's responsibility to ensure as much possible workplace safety while still allowing players to play their style of game.
You know, at one time in the history of the NHL, helmets were not required (nor encouraged)...yet now they're mandatory and thank god for that. Same thing for visors, and players complained...thank god visors are mandatory. I think Bryan Berard wishes he had one before he lost an eye. I'm just patiently waiting for the neck guards to become mandatory too.
Head shots and predatory hits are looked at very harshly and players are suspended for them. It's looked at as NOT a hockey play, but an intent to injure. Is fighting a hockey play? Is there an intent to injure or are guys pulling their punches? Sure, players have the free will to make those types of predatory hits, but there are consequences, sometimes serious ones that affect their pay. The question is whether the league should do the same thing for fighting, seeing as how it is also about head shots that aren't a necessary part of the game.
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"You know, that's kinda why I came here, to show that I don't suck that much" ~ Devin Cooley, Professional Goaltender
Yup, and all of them have health and safety protocols that have been written in the blood of workers before them. To stop needless deaths. Because young workers will do whatever it takes to remain employed.
