2024 Off-season trade rumours and speculation thread

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I would like to congratulate you on your Stanley cup victory last year as I was unaware you won it. You don’t need Markstrom, you need Markstrom, Ullmark, Swayman or Saros. Or don’t, I don’t care. Hey does Holtz have an elite golf swing to go along with his elite shot lol.

Not one of the goalies you mentioned won a round last year or has ever even made the conference finals in their career.

Let's look at the goalies of teams who won a round last playoffs?

Adin Hill/LT
Vitek Vanacek/Schmid
Freddy Andersen
Oetter
Skinner/Campbell
Ilya Samsonov/Woll
Phillip Grubauer.
Bobrovsky/Lyon

Yep, the only way to win in the NHL is to go get a top goalie via trade

[TheScorpion]

Dude. I haven't seen anyone derail a thread like this since Gaudreauvertime. Or me.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I'm pretty sure there's a wide margin in Markstrom's numbers against Canadian teams vs American teams.

Given that Boston or Tampa routinely take out the Leafs early (the only Canadian playoff threat in the east), Markstrom would thrive playing there.

The Flames didn't really have the quality of team in front to succeed. Certainly not the level of talent NJ boasts in their forward ranks. It's really not comparable. We didn't get this elite Tkachuk we're seeing in Florida, and one elite season from Gaudreau where Marky was between the pipes.

Yeah he falls apart against the Oilers and I'm not sure why but there are yips there. But he went toe to toe with Oettinger playing elite and outlasted him. That's more along the lines of what you could expect from Markstrom in NJ's division if his workload is managed properly.

Just because goaltending is unpredictable, it doesn't mean you just saddle up with proven duds/1B goalies at best and say it's fine.

Not sure how you didn't put two and two together but I'm calling you Kevin because your arrogance is very reminiscent of Kevin "I know a thing or two about winning" Lowe.

You should hope Fitz thinks differently than yourself because there are holes in your logic that you refuse to see or acknowledge.

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by MrMike

The only team that will continue to take your goalies for a second time is tanking.

Sure keep on racing that “Ferrari” on flat tires, just pay to get a few donuts on there should do.

Here's a list of the top 15 goalies from last year in GSAx

Sorokin, Saros, Ullmark, Helle, Shesty, Vasy, Gustafsson, Oetter, Samsonov, Swayman, Skinner, Georgiev, Montembault, Vitek, Kuemper.

Here's this year:

Helle, Markstrom, Binner, Demko, Ukko-Pekka, Swayman, Bob, Shesterkin, Daccord, Jarry, Ingram, Stolarz, Rittich, Quick, Ullmark.

Only Helle, Shestrkin, Swayman, Ullmark made the top 15 both years.

Let's look a few of the 15 worst goalies this year in GSAx.

Vitek, Samsonov, Gustafsson, Oettinger, Vasy.

4/15 goalies from last year's top 15 are in the top 15 again

5/15 goalies from last year's top 15 are in the bottom 15.

PAST GOALIE PERFORMANCE DOES NOT GUARANTEE FUTURE GOALIE PERFORMANCE

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I'm pretty sure there's a wide margin in Markstrom's numbers against Canadian teams vs American teams.

Given that Boston or Tampa routinely take out the Leafs early (the only Canadian playoff threat in the east), Markstrom would thrive playing there.

The Flames didn't really have the quality of team in front to succeed. Certainly not the level of talent NJ boasts in their forward ranks. It's really not comparable. We didn't get this elite Tkachuk we're seeing in Florida, and one elite season from Gaudreau where Marky was between the pipes.

Yeah he falls apart against the Oilers and I'm not sure why but there are yips there. But he went toe to toe with Oettinger playing elite and outlasted him. That's more along the lines of what you could expect from Markstrom in NJ's division if his workload is managed properly.

Just because goaltending is unpredictable, it doesn't mean you just saddle up with proven duds/1B goalies at best and say it's fine.

Not sure how you didn't put two and two together but I'm calling you Kevin because your arrogance is very reminiscent of Kevin "I know a thing or two about winning" Lowe.

You should hope Fitz thinks differently than yourself because there are holes in your logic that you refuse to see or acknowledge.

If Jacob Markstrom was 29 years old I'd say sure, sign me up. He is 34 years old.

There seems to be a failure to acknowledge the possibility of markstrom reverting to his level of play from last year, or 20-21, or even worse as he ages. In that case you've thrown away major assets, significant cap space, and STILL don't have a goalie you can win with.

There are a LOT of significant risk premiums that lower Markstroms value.

His age.
His cap hit.
His inconsistency year to year.

Even in the BEST case Markstrom still isn't a long term solution.

[Braden]

This is hilarious coming from a guy who's team had Martin Brodeur for 20 seasons

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by Braden

This is hilarious coming from a guy who's team had Martin Brodeur for 20 seasons

Oh the true best of the best are worth it.

Shesterkin is worth the moon
Hellebuyuck at a younger age worth the moon.
Swayman could be the guy, him I'd give a boatload for.

I'd go after any of Askarov, Wallstedt, Knight

34 year old Jacob Markstrom does not meet those criteria because he had a fantastic 30 game stretch.

The problem is goaltending has gotten more and more volatile, and younger and younger. It's not 2005 anymore.

It's why goaltenders don't take up as much of the cap as they used to.
It's why they go later and later in drafts with every passing year.
It's why they are getting less in trades than they used to.

[dgibb10]

To summarize.

Goalies are volatile. Old goalies especially so

You do not need a top pedigree expensive goalie to win in the NHL.

NJD should be and has been looking for a goalie. However, vastly overpaying for a goalie will not be beneficial to the team. At the right price, sure. If the ask is ridiculous, NJD should fill holes in other areas such as at 2LD and in the bottom 6

[Braden]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

I'd go after any of Askarov, Wallstedt, Knight


It's why they go later and later in drafts with every passing year.

*Breaking news dgibb wants top goalie prospects*

You honestly just sound like an idiot, literally all those goalies were drafted in the first round.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Braden

This is hilarious coming from a guy who's team had Martin Brodeur for 20 seasons

Speaking of Brodeur he thinks Markstom is top 5 in the league...uh oh, overpay incoming

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

At least you admit a 29 year old Markstrom would be a worthwhile gamble.

However, he's showing that he's still capable of playing at a very high level. He's more than likely still capable for 2 years (maybe just with a slightly reduced workload to handle wear).

He's been solid since the puck dropped in October. That's a long stretch to look top tier. We here saw his terrible season first-hand, and experienced all the pain of him letting the team down, and he has made believers of even his biggest critics here. Not a peep from them since around training camp because he's been that solid.

Given that last year coincided with the pregnancy then birth of his first child, I'd say it had a lot to do with it. There was an uptick in his quality of play right after his kid was born which lends more credence to it.

Don't see him regressing to that level again because that was a one time type of stressor that understandably interfered with him mentally.

If Tim Thomas could win at 38, the Devils would be fine with Markstrom at 35/36. It's really the perfect term and all this hoopla you're making about it just isn't justified (imo).

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by Braden

*Breaking news dgibb wants top goalie prospects*

You honestly just sound like an idiot, literally all those goalies were drafted in the first round.

I am aware. And I would pay handily for any of them. Or an actually young goalie.

34 year old, not so much.

Calgary's asks were at the level where the overpayment required outweighs the positional need.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

I am aware. And I would pay handily for any of them. Or an actually young goalie.

34 year old, not so much.

Calgary's asks were at the level where the overpayment required outweighs the positional need.

I think its time for you to move on with your life lol

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

At least you admit a 29 year old Markstrom would be a worthwhile gamble.

However, he's showing that he's still capable of playing at a very high level. He's more than likely still capable for 2 years (maybe just with a slightly reduced workload to handle wear).

He's been solid since the puck dropped in October. That's a long stretch to look top tier. We here saw his terrible season first-hand, and experienced all the pain of him letting the team down, and he has made believers of even his biggest critics here. Not a peep from them since around training camp because he's been that solid.

Given that last year coincided with the pregnancy then birth of his first child, I'd say it had a lot to do with it. There was an uptick in his quality of play right after his kid was born which lends more credence to it.

Don't see him regressing to that level again because that was a one time type of stressor that understandably interfered with him mentally.

And what happens if his wife gets pregnant again?

Markstrom had quite a lot of value (I personally would have been happy if NJD paid multiple 1sts for him with retention early in the year and up to the deadline)

But that window has passed imo. Going into next year there are no guarantees, or even anything close to a guarantee (How many would have predicted the significant regressions from Vasy, Saros, Oettinger, and Sorokin this year. I'd bet close to 0, maybe a few on vasy because of the surgery).

At 35, I think he's a worthwhile shot at 6 mill. Not something I'd pay the moon for.

In the final year of his deal, honestly I view him as a negative value asset at age 36 and 6 mill.

I'd rather go after Saros, Shesty, Ullmark, Georgiev, Adin Hill, Logan Thompson, etc in UFA than have a 36 year old Markstrom.

I could see someone doing it, but I wouldn't pay a 1st for Markstrom without retention anymore.

Markstrom COULD be good at age 36, but very few 36 year olds in the recent past have been able to play quality hockey while maintaining a starters workload.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

I am aware. And I would pay handily for any of them. Or an actually young goalie.

34 year old, not so much.

Calgary's asks were at the level where the overpayment required outweighs the positional need.

Their positional need is what's keeping them from drafting right before or after the Flames this year and perennial contention.

Some prices are worth paying. You can't keep all your assets and young players and also have championships. Sacrifices have to be made. Look how aggressively Vegas has pursued the pieces they needed and how it's paid off. Tampa Bay's cupboards are still bare from pursuing championships, but those moves paid off for them too.

NJ is in that window of time where those are the moves they have to be making. Otherwise they'll just carry on indefinitely being a more talented Arizona Coyotes. Always sitting on a pile of good young players and assets, but never taking the next step. Locked in some kind of development hell.

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Their positional need is what's keeping them from drafting right before or after the Flames this year and perennial contention.

Some prices are worth paying. You can't keep all your assets and young players and also have championships. Sacrifices have to be made. Look how aggressively Vegas has pursued the pieces they needed and how it's paid off. Tampa Bay's cupboards are still bare from pursuing championships, but those moves paid off for them too.

NJ is in that window of time where those are the moves they have to be making. Otherwise they'll just carry on indefinitely being a more talented Arizona Coyotes. Always sitting on a pile of good young players and assets, but never taking the next step. Locked in some kind of development hell.

Tampa looked for young guys, and cheap value contracts.

Also, frankly their success was because they chose the young Vasy (who was legit BAD at that time), over the older Bishop.

They were good for a WHILE before they went in, and didn't really ship out any young, productive roster players.

Brayden Points rookie year at age 20. Imagine if they shipped him away after that disappointment vs CBJ

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Their positional need is what's keeping them from drafting right before or after the Flames this year and perennial contention.

Some prices are worth paying. You can't keep all your assets and young players and also have championships. Sacrifices have to be made. Look how aggressively Vegas has pursued the pieces they needed and how it's paid off. Tampa Bay's cupboards are still bare from pursuing championships, but those moves paid off for them too.

NJ is in that window of time where those are the moves they have to be making. Otherwise they'll just carry on indefinitely being a more talented Arizona Coyotes. Always sitting on a pile of good young players and assets, but never taking the next step. Locked in some kind of development hell.

Or let's look at tampa bay in 2016-17. They had made the cup final and conference final in the previous 2 years. 3rd best odds to win the cup. But they were struggling, they were on the playoff bubble (in fact they were virtually identical to where NJD was around the deadline).

They had a surplus of goalies. Ben Bishop and Vasy. Vasy had been BAD that year (bottom 5 in the league in GSAx). They didn't trade away Vasy for a piece to fill a need and go in. They sold Bishop, not for a massive haul either. Sold rental brian Boyle as well.

They didn't sell a rookie by the name of Brayden Point who had 18 goals and 40 points in 70 games 3 years after being drafted (mercer 3 years after being drafted had 27 goals and 57 points), to fill a hole.

In fact they also had a surplus of Cs. They had Steven Stamkos and Tyler Johnson, and others in the pipeline like Cirelli

They had Palat and Killorn and Kucherov and Drouin. You would have thought, hey, this Brayden Point kid is expendable, no real place in the top 6 for him.

Stamkos had missed a bunch of time (like hamilton).

I'm seeing some parallels.

They then went in the offseason and went after 26 year old JT miller and 29 year old Ryan McDonagh (similar to the meier trade), while keeping their top young players. They did then flip young drouin for another young asset in Sergachev. Moves like these led to an EXTENDED window and is what won them their cups.

But yes, NJD should emulate the tampa model. If we're moving Holtz/Mercer, it should be for a YOUNG asset at a position of need.

Go after guys in their mid 20s, not 30s. Use picks/non nhl prospects not ELC/RFA roster players on moves like these.

[UKflames]

Can someone remind me how you mute a poster on here. Asking for multiple friends.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

Tampa looked for young guys, and cheap value contracts.

Also, frankly their success was because they chose the young Vasy (who was legit BAD at that time), over the older Bishop.

They were good for a WHILE before they went in, and didn't really ship out any young, productive roster players.

Brayden Points rookie year at age 20. Imagine if they shipped him away after that disappointment vs CBJ

Legit bad at the time - .917 SV percentage the season Bishop was traded.

Hopefully the Devils can someday find a legit BAD goalie with a .917 sv percentage. Maybe Daws can be that young goalie.

Problem for the ####ty devils is that they have no goalies, whereas Tampa had two goalies.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by UKflames

Can someone remind me how you mute a poster on here. Asking for multiple friends.

Go to their profile -> user lists -> ignore