UPD: Flames renounce rights to Topi Ronni

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Rasmus Andersson was before Backlund.

Andersson Backlund, and Granlund are the only Europeans the Flames drafted in the past 25 years that played more than 300 games.
Kylington will hit that mark eventually probably.

Huh???

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Rasmus Andersson was before Backlund.

Andersson Backlund, and Granlund are the only Europeans the Flames drafted in the past 25 years that played more than 300 games.
Kylington will hit that mark eventually probably.

I think they are referring to European scouted, not European by birth. Andersson was an OHL player

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Rasmus Andersson was before Backlund.

Andersson Backlund, and Granlund are the only Europeans the Flames drafted in the past 25 years that played more than 300 games.
Kylington will hit that mark eventually probably.

Yeah, I remembered Andersson, but he was also scouted as a part of the Barrie Colts with Mangiapane. That's why I didn't think he applied to our European scouting. The same applies to Valimaki(Tri-City, WHL), and Ruzicka(Sarnia, OHL). In contrast, Backlund was picked up from Vasteras, and Kylington from Farjestad BK.

Forgot about Granlund, but I don't really consider him a success either. The point is that our European scouts haven't had much to show for their work, and this area needs to be improved ASAP.

PS: I apologize if mentioning Pospisil caused the confusion, I forgot he played in the USHL.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Yeah, I remembered Andersson, but he was also scouted as a part of the Barrie Colts with Mangiapane. That's why I didn't think he applied to our European scouting. The same applies to Valimaki(Tri-City, WHL), and Ruzicka(Sarnia, OHL). In contrast, Backlund was picked up from Vasteras, and Kylington from Farjestad BK.

Forgot about Granlund, but I don't really consider him a success either. The point is that our European scouts haven't had much to show for their work, and this area needs to be improved ASAP.

PS: I apologize if mentioning Pospisil caused the confusion, I forgot he played in the USHL.

Judging them based on the draft is small sample size theatre.

If you exclude last year and 2022 which was just Ronni and 2 other picks.

2021 - 1 European vs 7 North America
2020 - 1 vs 7
2019 - 2 vs 3
2018 - 0 vs 5
2017 - 1 vs 4
2016 - 2 vs 7
2015 - 1 vs 4

The Europeans were drafted - 2 in the 2nd round, 1 in the 3rd, 2 in the 4th, 1 in the 6th and 1 7th.

You got one hit out of that group which was a 2nd round pick. The other 2nd round pick is still just 20 years old. Strikes me as a pretty average.

Outside of 1st rounders in North America - you have Fox, Mangipane and Andersson who were clear hits and then Dube/Ruzicka in the played in the NHL but are likely done now due to outside of rink issues.

So Europe = 1 hit out of 8 picks outside of the 1st round - 12.5%
North America = 4 hits out of 32 picks outside of the 1st round = 12.5%

[Eric Vail]

Nice to see the Flames step up and put this issue to bed. I expect internally they have to ask if they investigated the player's character enough. It may be that they made an effort but were given bad information. It is not uncommon for people close to a criminal to believe that he is a great person. We certainly can't tell from here.

Is this a preview of what is going to happen to Dube and the gang?

[Locke]

Good. He has a stupid name anyways.

Although I am surprised at the lightness of his sentence. Maybe our Finnish friends can chime in and tell us if this is typical?

[Delthefunky]

Originally Posted by tony-soprano

Be a great time to cut ties with Tod Button.

I think Tod Button has done a great job here, and we'd be a much worse team without him. Maybe former GMs should have listened to him more, and given him some draft picks instead of trading them away for 4th line plugs. The Flames have had some absolute steals in the late rounds over the last decade or so.

[Reggie Dunlop]

If I'm to understand the timeline, Ronni did not inform the team of his pending legal issues until after he was drafted, then why was he invited to two development camps? Is that a question that needs to be addressed?

[timun]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Ramholt was looking like a great pick until he went back home. He did not want to play in NA.

Ramholt didn't want to play in NA in any league other than the NHL, earning a commensurate NHL salary. And I wouldn't either, if I were him.

The Flames did him a solid by trading him elsewhere after the '07-'08 season, and he didn't impress either the Flyers or the Predators. He was a #7-8 guy on the Milwaukee Admirals in '08-'09, turning 25 in the fall of '09: at that point the writing was on the wall. He wisely went back to Switzerland and carved out a nice career in their National League; he almost certainly made much more money playing there than toiling in the AHL.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

I think Tod Button has done a great job here, and we'd be a much worse team without him. Maybe former GMs should have listened to him more, and given him some draft picks instead of trading them away for 4th line plugs. The Flames have had some absolute steals in the late rounds over the last decade or so.

Yeah if Calgary has a strength it seems to be scouting in recent years.

Not sure I'd lop off the top of that department!

And with that I personally don't see the point in hindsight evaluating every pick (including the Ronni pick). I mean you can, fill your boots. But picks out of the first round have a pretty sketchy success rate, so obsessing on who could have been taken after a failed pick seems silly to me if you're happy with the overall work of the group.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

No wonder the Flames have no finish.

Our European scouting needs a new perspective. Outside of Pospisil, was Kylington(2015) the last European pick to workout? And we probably have to track all the way back to Backlund, before 2015.

As for Ronni, I have no empathy for rapists, hopefully he isn't wrongly accused.

There is a guilty verdict. The sentence imples there's stuff we don't know about but wrongfully accused seems to be off the table unless the verdict is wrong (and appealed).

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

I think Tod Button has done a great job here, and we'd be a much worse team without him. Maybe former GMs should have listened to him more, and given him some draft picks instead of trading them away for 4th line plugs. The Flames have had some absolute steals in the late rounds over the last decade or so.

I don't think Button is bad nor do I pretend to know how responsible he's been for Flames picks. There's likely always some internal politics when it comes to high picks. I would like to hope picks like Hunter Smith and Keegan Kanzig (blatant mismanagement of 2nd round picks on large men that weren't good) were managment overruling scouts but we will never know. It seems like the team has not done well at all when picking for size over skill so there's still a lot of room for improvement IMO.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think Button is bad nor do I pretend to know how responsible he's been for Flames picks. There's likely always some internal politics when it comes to high picks. I would like to hope picks like Hunter Smith and Keegan Kanzig (blatant mismanagement of 2nd round picks on large men that weren't good) were managment overruling scouts but we will never know. It seems like the team has not done well at all when picking for size over skill so there's still a lot of room for improvement IMO.

Wasn't Kanzig the year before Treliving, and Smith 5 weeks after he took over.

First one is Burke 100%, and the second likely too.

[Nufy]

I haven't read the details...was this a case of two underage people being intimate or was it actually predatory.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Nufy

I haven't read the details...was this a case of two underage people being intimate or was it actually predatory.

No one has read any details.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Wasn't Kanzig the year before Treliving, and Smith 5 weeks after he took over.



First one is Burke 100%, and the second likely too.

They were truculent picks!!

[Ba'alzamon]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Wasn't Kanzig the year before Treliving, and Smith 5 weeks after he took over.

First one is Burke 100%, and the second likely too.

Kanzig was also a 3rd rounder, not a 2nd.

Semantics, I know, but Erick said 2nd rounders.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by Nufy

I haven't read the details...was this a case of two underage people being intimate or was it actually predatory.

Given the court ruling, I think we know the answer.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

Given the court ruling, I think we know the answer.

Do we? Can you cite the Finnish laws pertaining to the case? Do you even know any details of the actual charges?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Wasn't Kanzig the year before Treliving, and Smith 5 weeks after he took over.

First one is Burke 100%, and the second likely too.

Yeah I just pulled those out of my head as picks that were likely management over scouts. It's why I tend to feel that mid to later round picks are more indicative of well the scouting department is doing over the early round picks where management is likely making the final decisions.