Friedman: LTIR may be addressed in next CBA

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I thought no teams were concerned about this - only fans?

So did I, but this poster has sources that I don't have.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am not being rude, I am asking a legit question, so you think before posting stuff like this? I know for a fact it is more than a few teams that are upset about this. Also most teams are breaking even, do the actual math on what they are spending cap hit wise once everyone is healthy. This whole it is ok to bend the rules take you have bothers me, the fact you think it is ok for teams to ice a team with a huge cap advantage in the playoffs tells me you don't give a F about fair play.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

So did I, but this poster has sources that I don't have.

The premise of this thread is that the league wants to look at it. How do you think that comes about? Just Gary deciding to stir the pot? Or GMs and owners asking about it?

[FanIn80]

Have a "black aces" squad for the playoffs. Maximum 5 forwards, 3 D and a G. You can put any player you want from your organization on the squad, but the roster you dress for a game must be cap-compliant, just like it would for the regular season.

Black Aces:
- Entire squad must be delcared prior to your first game of the playoffs.
- You can declare injured guys for this squad if you want, but no changes can be made to this squad whether the player becomes eligible for play, or remains injured. (That player's spot on the squad cannot be replaced.)
- Your starting lineup for each game must be cap compliant.
- A Black Ace cannot participate in a game unless they were named as part of the starting lineup. If both goalies get hurt, teams are still expected to follow standard procedures (EBUG, etc). Your Black Aces goalie can be dressed for the following game, as either starter or backup, if so needed, however your team still needs to be cap-compliant. This might mean you also need to swap another player to make enough cap space.
- Your main roster must be cap-compliant at all times, just like in the regular season. If you need to move someone from your Black Aces to the main roster, you must also create the necessary cap space to do so within the same transaction.
- Black Aces positional caps cannot be exceeded at any time. (You can't transfer a 4th D to the squad in order to make cap space for a forward - even if that forward moving off the squad would put you under the maximum allowed forwards.) (You also cannot move two forwards down to make room for an expensive forward to come up, if doing so puts you over the maximum forwards limit. This applies to all positions.)

There. Everything solved. Basically, your main roster has to be cap-compliant at all times. So, if you think Mark Stone will be back for the playoffs, you can either put him on your Black Aces squad, or fit him into your starting lineup - as long as your starting lineup is within the cap thresholds. If you put him on your Black Aces squad, you cannot assign him to your main roster without first clearing enough cap space (without going over the maximum positinal allotments for the Black Aces squad).

Suddenly, teams are using their reserves to help them deal with injuries... not to help them stack their rosters for the playoffs.


Amendment: Each team would be allowed one opportunity to alter their Black Aces squad, upon their AHL affiliate's exit from the AHL playoffs. This will allow your prospects to play in their playoffs and still allow them to be used in your playoffs. You can make as many changes as you want during this window by submitting your new Black Aces squad to the league. Only players who were dressed in the final playoff game for your AHL affliate can be added this way. Positional maximums still apply.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The premise of this thread is that the league wants to look at it. How do you think that comes about? Just Gary deciding to stir the pot? Or GMs and owners asking about it?

The headline of the linked article in the OP is "Will there be demand to change LTIR in next CBA?" followed by Friedman saying "a couple managers" are not 100 percent comfortable about it.

The league hasn't said anything.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

The headline of the linked article in the OP is "Will there be demand to change LTIR in next CBA?" followed by Friedman saying "a couple managers" are not 100 percent comfortable about it.

The league hasn't said anything.

So we can eliminate Gary. It is GMs.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So we can eliminate Gary. It is GMs.

Yeah, 2. Reportedly. 14 are doing it.

Wonder how many owners aren't 100 percent comfortable about Arizona's arena.

[calumniate]

Vegas taking Hertl is just a slap in the face that this is what they are blatantly doing. Stock up on injured players that are ready for April.

So come summertime, Monahan has is bunch of surgeries, goes on LTIR.. becomes a prime target for Vegas to grab him at the trade deadline and activate him in the playoffs. This is garbage lol

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So we can eliminate Gary. It is GMs.

GMs of smaller market teams would be my guess. I think the Flames would do it if they could.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Bonded

GMs of smaller market teams would be my guess. I think the Flames would do it if they could.

You think Murray Edwards is ponying up an extra $25M for a chance that might not work out? I don't.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You think Murray Edwards is ponying up an extra $25M for a chance that might not work out? I don't.

If it helped the just get in and anything can happen narrative, I do. I don't think Edwards is a cheap owner though. He meddles but regularly spends to the cap, buys out players, fire coaches, and started retaining. Not sure he'd pony up an extra 25 million but I think he'd do something.

The Flames have never been in a spot to really abuse LTIR. A GM has to be confident that his squad will make the playoffs without important pieces playing.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You think Murray Edwards is ponying up an extra $25M for a chance that might not work out? I don't.

What's he going to do when the cap goes to $108.5M? Not spend it? That'd be a chance that might not work out.

[butterfly]

$25 million is baloney anyway. There isn't even $25 million between the cap floor and the ceiling. If you maximized this opportunity you'd get to the floor, then raise up your roster to the ceiling at the deadline, then bring everyone back at the start of the playoffs.

Las Vegas spent $2.3 million of actual money to get Hanifin and Hertl for this playoff run which cost them a bunch of good picks and prospects.

[dissentowner]

Good grief, we get it, you think it's awesome teams find a way to basically cheat. Ya ya, it's a loophole, so is counting cards at the blackjack table, still a form of cheating.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Good grief, we get it, you think it's awesome teams find a way to basically cheat. Ya ya, it's a loophole, so is counting cards at the blackjack table, still a form of cheating.

Au contraire, I think it's clever that they're doing it. There's no cheating about it, basic or otherwise. We have some GMs who have shown creativity and innovation within the rules of the CBA instead of Eeyore accepting the way things have always been done and banging their head into the wall waiting for someone to implement perpetual fairness, which has never existed.

Costs far more money to play single deck blackjack than infinite deck - wonder why?

[Roof-Daddy]

Teams weren't technically "cheating" with all those BS front loaded long term contracts either, and the NHL still dropped the hammer on them with cap recapture penalties so we'll see where this ends up before we start calling a bunch of cheaters "clever".

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Teams weren't technically "cheating" with all those BS front loaded long term contracts either, and the NHL still dropped the hammer on them with cap recapture penalties so we'll see where this ends up before we start calling a bunch of cheaters "clever".

They dropped the hammer on one of them. One. And then changed the rules when it was going actually have an effect on another team.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Teams weren't technically "cheating" with all those BS front loaded long term contracts either, and the NHL still dropped the hammer on them with cap recapture penalties so we'll see where this ends up before we start calling a bunch of cheaters "clever".

Their banners are still going to hang in the rafters forever, as will their names remain on the Stanley Cup. You take advantage of what you can.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Their banners are still going to hang in the rafters forever, as will their names remain on the Stanley Cup. You take advantage of what you can.

Astros banner will hang forever too. Still a bunch of cheaters

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Astros banner will hang forever too. Still a bunch of cheaters

The effect of LTIR on the salary cap being inapplicable in the playoffs is slightly different than banging on trash cans.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Good grief, we get it, you think it's awesome teams find a way to basically cheat. Ya ya, it's a loophole, so is counting cards at the blackjack table, still a form of cheating.

Except words are important.
It is certainly an abuse of the current rules, but it isn't in violation of them.
So it isn't cheating.

It will be corrected, hopefully.