Friedman: LTIR may be addressed in next CBA

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Just last week Vegas was in striking distance.

Injuries can pile up.

They are also taking on a lot of risk dealing away picks etc and a chance they could miss the playoffs and not ice the super team you make them out to be.

They are missing Stone and Martinez and added Mantha and Hanifin, they are not going to miss.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Why are you being so rude? It's actually possible to discuss and differ on these issues without being that way. I suggest you try it.

It is mid-market teams doing it, not "big money teams". https://www.forbes.com/lists/nhl-val...h=43e1bb654109

They are spending $309k of actual salary on Hanifin and $2.07M of actual salary on Hertl. That is not going to break the bank for any NHL franchise outside of the Coyotes.

I am not being rude, I am asking a legit question, so you think before posting stuff like this? I know for a fact it is more than a few teams that are upset about this. Also most teams are breaking even, do the actual math on what they are spending cap hit wise once everyone is healthy. This whole it is ok to bend the rules take you have bothers me, the fact you think it is ok for teams to ice a team with a huge cap advantage in the playoffs tells me you don't give a F about fair play.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am not being rude, I am asking a legit question, so you think before posting stuff like this? I know for a fact it is more than a few teams that are upset about this. Also most teams are breaking even, do the actual math on what they are spending cap hit wise once everyone is healthy. This whole it is ok to bend the rules take you have bothers me, the fact you think it is ok for teams to ice a team with a huge cap advantage in the playoffs tells me you don't give a F about fair play.

You're dropping f-bombs on me and questioning whether or not I think before posting. That's pretty rude.

The teams that are upset about it must be feeling pretty stupid that they couldn't see what was possible upon the agreement of the CBA. Did they read it and think it through before agreeing to it?

Fair play means everyone plays by the same rules. There is no rule that says "only Las Vegas, Tampa Bay, and Colorado can put someone on LTIR and activate them for the playoffs"; anyone can do it. How come the "big money teams" like Toronto, New York, Los Angeles, Boston aren't doing it? Should we blame Montreal for doing it and faking Carey Price's problem? Nah, they're going to miss the playoffs so that doesn't advance the conspiracy. Maybe Toronto is in fact doing it and they just made up a story about Muzzin and Matt Murray.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by butterfly

You're dropping f-bombs on me and questioning whether or not I think before posting. That's pretty rude.

The teams that are upset about it must be feeling pretty stupid that they couldn't see what was possible upon the agreement of the CBA. Did they read it and think it through before agreeing to it?

Fair play means everyone plays by the same rules. There is no rule that says "only Las Vegas, Tampa Bay, and Colorado can put someone on LTIR and activate them for the playoffs"; anyone can do it. How come the "big money teams" like Toronto, New York, Los Angeles, Boston aren't doing it? Should we blame Montreal for doing it and faking Carey Price's problem? Nah, they're going to miss the playoffs so that doesn't advance the conspiracy. Maybe Toronto is in fact doing it and they just made up a story about Muzzin and Matt Murray.

The teams that are upset about it are teams that can't afford to cheat like that, and it negates the whole purpose of having a friggin salary cap in the first place.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The teams that are upset about it are teams that can't afford to cheat like that, and it negates the whole purpose of having a friggin salary cap in the first place.

Do you think they plan the cheating in the offseason ?

Ok Mark in February you will lacerate your spleen, so we can potentially add someone at the deadline who is injured as well.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by butterfly

You're dropping f-bombs on me and questioning whether or not I think before posting. That's pretty rude.

The teams that are upset about it must be feeling pretty stupid that they couldn't see what was possible upon the agreement of the CBA. Did they read it and think it through before agreeing to it?

Fair play means everyone plays by the same rules. There is no rule that says "only Las Vegas, Tampa Bay, and Colorado can put someone on LTIR and activate them for the playoffs"; anyone can do it. How come the "big money teams" like Toronto, New York, Los Angeles, Boston aren't doing it? Should we blame Montreal for doing it and faking Carey Price's problem? Nah, they're going to miss the playoffs so that doesn't advance the conspiracy. Maybe Toronto is in fact doing it and they just made up a story about Muzzin and Matt Murray.

And quit with the strawman crap.

Nobody is saying every damn injury is faked. We're saying a player gets hurt, the team goes out and loads up on expensive players using up the LTIR from that player getting hurt, then they have that player stay out and rest until either a)a different player gets hurt and goes on LTIR or b) the playoffs start and the salary cap doesn't matter anymore.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Do you think they plan the cheating in the offseason ?

Ok Mark in February you will lacerate your spleen, so we can potentially add someone at the deadline who is injured as well.

No. Mark gets hurt, they add other players through trades, then don't bring Mark back until like I just said a)someone else gets hurt or b) the playoffs start

[Roof-Daddy]

But yeah lol, it's all a conspiracy and made up in peoples heads even though they league is looking at fixing it in the next CBA. "Nothing to see here" haha

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

No. Mark gets hurt, they add other players through trades, then don't bring Mark back until like I just said a)someone else gets hurt or b) the playoffs start

I don’t think Stone starts in the playoffs anyways. A lacerated spleen is pretty dangerous.

The solution is simple. Have the salary cap applied in the playoffs.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

And quit with the strawman crap.

Nobody is saying every damn injury is faked. We're saying a player gets hurt, the team goes out and loads up on expensive players using up the LTIR from that player getting hurt, then they have that player stay out and rest until either a)a different player gets hurt and goes on LTIR or b) the playoffs start and the salary cap doesn't matter anymore.

And if everybody was taking advantage of it or nobody was taking advantage of it, it would be totally fair.

But since only some teams are taking advantage of it, it's unfair.

Do I have it about right?

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I don’t think Stone starts in the playoffs anyways. A lacerated spleen is pretty dangerous.

The solution is simple. Have the salary cap applied in the playoffs.

In theory that is 100% great but practically not so much. The NHL want's the best teams available and playing for the playoffs. If you have a young, hot player playing well, you can't bench him for a high priced veteran for cap compliance. Vice versa as well.

The NHL kind has the 2 different seasons from a quality perspective. Regular season and a lot of the gimmicks like losers points go away and the boring games consisting of some passing and a goal go out the window.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The teams that are upset about it are teams that can't afford to cheat like that, and it negates the whole purpose of having a friggin salary cap in the first place.

Then keep the $2.3 million, all your prospects and picks, and don't replace your injured players. No one's forcing you to do it.

The salary cap exists to provide the owners cost certainty, not to provide the fans fairness.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Fair play means everyone plays by the same rules. There is no rule that says "only Las Vegas, Tampa Bay, and Colorado can put someone on LTIR and activate them for the playoffs"; anyone can do it. How come the "big money teams" like Toronto, New York, Los Angeles, Boston aren't doing it? Should we blame Montreal for doing it and faking Carey Price's problem? Nah, they're going to miss the playoffs so that doesn't advance the conspiracy. Maybe Toronto is in fact doing it and they just made up a story about Muzzin and Matt Murray.

Toronto did it with Murray. Hell, Toronto invented Robidas Island.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by butterfly

And if everybody was taking advantage of it or nobody was taking advantage of it, it would be totally fair.

But since only some teams are taking advantage of it, it's unfair.

Do I have it about right?

Nobody should be taking advantage of it and that's why they're going to look into fixing it.

That's why there is a salary cap. Just because some teams found a way to ignore the salary cap doesn't mean it's right or that everybody should do it. Some teams can't afford to do it.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by butterfly

The salary cap exists to provide the owners cost certainty, not to provide the fans fairness.

It actually exists to even the playing field and keep teams competitive.

Complaining about people being rude when the bulk of your posts are sarcastic or condescending is funny enough, but if you are going to be condescending, you should at least know what you’re talking about.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It actually exists to even the playing field and keep teams competitive.

Complaining about people being rude when the bulk of your posts are sarcastic or condescending is funny enough, but if you are going to be condescending, you should at least know what you’re talking about.

The owners care about making money, not evening the playing field.

They do care about keeping teams competitive to the extent that it keeps fans interested longer into the season than we should be. And, I suppose "evening the playing field" would fall into this as well. Hence, the three-point games that give the illusion of parity which are going nowhere.

Nothing I said is condescending. That is what they care about. Making an operating profit and increasing their franchise values. I would be shocked if this is a big issue among the board of governors.

If Salt Lake City is willing to cut a $1B check split 32 ways given the current loophole infested state of play, I doubt they see a big problem. That's a lot of $309k Hanifins for rent.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by butterfly

It is mid-market teams doing it, not "big money teams". https://www.forbes.com/lists/nhl-val...h=43e1bb654109

I don't know why you're using a Forbes valuation list to argue... actually, I'm not even sure what point you're trying to argue. The proper metric to use is "wealthy owners who are willing to spend out of pocket to buy a Stanley Cup."

Not every single season for every single team is about making as much money as you can. When you have a strong enough team to be considered a contender at the deadline, kicking in a few exrtra $$$ when you know there's no cap in the playoffs can be a sound investment. Deep run = more playoff tickets = more merch sales = more consession sales = more media coverage = more interest from casuals = more season tickets.

The cap is $83.5M. There are 14 teams above that right now, but 10 of them are at least still in the 80s.

The 4 teams above $90M are Toronto, Tampa, Vegas and Colorado. Toronto was in the $100M range going into last year's playoffs, and they're at $98M this year. Tampa's at $94M and everyone and their dog knows Sergachev will be back for the playoffs (if they make it). Vegas... first they used LTIR to buy an injured Eichel, now they did it again to buy an injured Hertl (who will be back with Stone in time for Game 1). Landeskog's gonna be back for Colorado (it's in the news days after they bumped their roster up to $91M at the deadline).

At some point it has to start sinking in with more people that it's always the same teams doing this.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It actually exists to even the playing field and keep teams competitive.

Complaining about people being rude when the bulk of your posts are sarcastic or condescending is funny enough, but if you are going to be condescending, you should at least know what you’re talking about.

Exactly.

Cost certainty is just the method being used to ensure league parity, which is the driving force behind (and the entire reason for) the cap.

[Macindoc]

In no way, shape, or form is the trading for players already on LTIR in the spirit of LTIR, it's intended to allow franchises to ice a full team and be cap compliant in spite of players being injured (remember when the Flames had to ice a 19 player team before LTIR was introduced, because all of their injured players' salaries still applied to the cap?) If a player is on LTIR, they should simply not be eligible to be traded until they come off LTIR. Period.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

If a player is on LTIR, they should simply not be eligible to be traded until they come off LTIR. Period.

That would be a good place to start, and would curb the worst abuses.